Episode 8: Strip club dates, dance partners to lovers, and building trust in a polyamorous relationship

This week, I was so excited to sit down with a dear friend of mine. Alex (he/him) and his partner Charlie (she/her) so graciously shared their love story with us! From their first time meeting at the dance studio, to their first date at the strip club, and everything after in between, this was such a fun and insightful episode and I can’t wait for you all to listen!

Join us as we discuss:

♡ How fusion dance brought them together 

♡ Charlie’s ultimate scheme to swindle Alex

♡ How they intentionally worked to make this relationship different than their past relationships

♡ Their journey to polyamory (both individually and together)

♡ Their hilarious first date strip club story (MUST LISTEN)

♡ How they were able to build trust in a polyamorous relationship

♡ Navigating differing love languages and personality types

♡ How being together has helped them grow

…And more! 

Scroll down for episode transcript ♡

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0:00:08.000,0:00:15.520
Welcome back to this episode of Ordinary Love. I 
am sitting with my two friends, Alex and Charlie,

0:00:15.520,0:00:21.520
who are being so gracious today and sharing their 
relationship with us. So, I would love for you

0:00:21.520,0:00:26.560
guys to just introduce yourselves and give us a 
little bit of an idea of who we're talking to.

0:00:26.560,0:00:37.440
All right. Uh, thanks, Karina. Hi, I'm Charlie. 
Uh, pronouns she, her. I am Alex's girlfriend. Uh,

0:00:37.440,0:00:44.560
I'm Alex. Pronouns are he, him. I'm Charlie's 
boyfriend and I've known Karina for about 10

0:00:44.560,0:00:50.000
years. I know. We just celebrated our 10-y year 
anniversary of our friendship. I actually didn't

0:00:50.000,0:00:54.800
know that. I think it was Arnell maybe, that 
pulled up the photo of like a Facebook memory

0:00:54.800,0:00:59.360
or something out of nowhere. Hey, it's 
10 years. Yeah. I was just like, "Wow,

0:00:59.360,0:01:03.200
that it made me feel really happy, but then 
it also just made me feel really old." I was

0:01:03.200,0:01:12.080
just like, "Wow, ain't no way college was 10 
years ago." Oh my god, you guys are so old.

0:01:12.080,0:01:16.960
I know. I have to like I have to really be 
cautious of who I say that to cuz I'm usually

0:01:16.960,0:01:23.760
the youngest person these days. Wait, how old are 
you, Charlie? On record. Do you want to take a

0:01:23.760,0:01:31.760
guess? This is also like one of my favorite games. 
I feel like we had this conversation at dinner.

0:01:31.760,0:01:40.800
Really? But I don't even remember. You remember? 
Okay. I don't. 35. 34. 34. Yeah. Oh my god. You're

0:01:40.800,0:01:48.640
You are not that old. You are not that old. Brad 
is like 32. Oh, okay. Yeah. And how old are you,

0:01:48.640,0:01:56.880
Alex? I'm 32. 32. Okay. Okay. Wait. How old are 
you? 29. 29. Yeah. You haven't Oh, okay. You

0:01:56.880,0:02:02.880
haven't reached the age where your check engine 
light is gone yet. If I could offer any advice,

0:02:02.880,0:02:08.960
just don't turn 30. Okay, I'll do that. I heard 
that the moment you turn 30 is the moment that

0:02:08.960,0:02:13.600
your back starts giving out. Yes. Is that true? 
And everything. Everything starts getting sore.

0:02:13.600,0:02:18.480
Suddenly, it's just like a flip is like a switch 
is flipped and you're like, why am I so sore all

0:02:18.480,0:02:24.560
of a sudden every day? Yeah. Why is everything so 
hard? Yep. My life is so hard. What are we doing

0:02:24.560,0:02:31.280
today? Uh, you asked us to hang out and gave us 
microphones and we're like talk. So, we're gonna

0:02:31.280,0:02:35.760
hang out while speaking into microphones. They 
were very modest about who they are. They didn't

0:02:35.760,0:02:40.800
really share a lot, but they are both dancers. Do 
you Yeah, they are both dancers and I guess we're

0:02:40.800,0:02:45.360
going to get into that because that's how you 
met, right? Yeah. I'll start because I remember

0:02:45.360,0:02:51.600
how we first met and he doesn't. What? You don't 
remember? Well, Alex doesn't remember a lot of

0:02:51.600,0:03:02.480
things. Yes. What? Just tell it. I originally 
am from SoCal. I My family lives in Irvine,

0:03:02.480,0:03:10.240
but I used to go to Davis for school and that's 
how I was like more familiar with the region and

0:03:10.240,0:03:17.280
why I decided to move back up here because I liked 
living in NorCal. We're in Sacramento right now.

0:03:17.280,0:03:24.480
We're in Sacramento right now. Yes. We have a 
mutual friend, Ringo, and we have two mutual

0:03:24.480,0:03:31.840
friends, Ringo and Jonathan, who are both dancers. 
Wow. Uh, I met Ringo, also in Davis. At the time,

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I didn't dance at all. Ringo did and then, but 
then it wasn't until like way later, over 10 years

0:03:39.760,0:03:46.640
later, when I moved back to Davis, that I started 
thinking about learning how to dance. And Ringo is

0:03:46.640,0:03:53.600
like, I can show you different dance venues and 
stuff like that. So Ringo, you knew Ringo from

0:03:53.600,0:04:01.200
your hometown? No, no, I knew Ringo from UC Davis. 
Oh, okay. So we went to UC Davis together and then

0:04:01.200,0:04:11.680
um lost touch for around 10ish years because I 
moved back to SoCal after after college. Yeah. Um

0:04:11.680,0:04:21.680
eventually Ringo and Jonathan who they introduced 
me to a style called fusion dance and fusion is

0:04:21.680,0:04:33.120
like the name suggests like you fuse different 
dance styles together. It's not super structured.

0:04:33.120,0:04:38.880
Oh, the doorbell just rang. Anyways, ignoring the 
doorbell and uh Alex getting up to go answer it

0:04:38.880,0:04:43.840
because he's not needed for this part. He's not 
going to remember anything anyways. He doesn't

0:04:43.840,0:04:49.600
remember any of this. Yeah. I the way that I've 
only like Dance Fusion a few times. Mhm. But the

0:04:49.600,0:04:55.520
way that it feels to me as someone who's like only 
dipped her toes in every so often, it almost feels

0:04:55.520,0:05:00.160
like like ballroom like freestyle. Like you could 
just do whatever you want, you know? And like you

0:05:00.160,0:05:05.360
can really dance to almost like any any music. 
you let the music kind of just like guide you,

0:05:05.360,0:05:11.200
which is what I love about it. Yeah, that's 
a big part of fusion is like musicality. It's

0:05:11.200,0:05:18.880
it's basically to me it feels like the improv 
of all improv kind of dances. Like there's a big

0:05:18.880,0:05:28.160
presence amongst like West Coast swing sort of 
like crowd. Um because in like west coast swing

0:05:28.160,0:05:34.720
is very similar to fusion where it's like a lot 
of smooth movements, not a lot of you know like

0:05:34.720,0:05:41.920
jumping around. Uh fusion is like west coast 
swing without with fewer rules. Yeah. Yeah. I

0:05:41.920,0:05:47.200
took a couple West Coast Swing classes before and 
it was like surprising to me how much it reminded

0:05:47.200,0:05:52.720
me of Fusion. To me it felt like it was a little 
bit more structured. You have specific steps,

0:05:52.720,0:05:59.440
you know, you have basic steps that uh every 
beginner class will have. You go like, oh,

0:05:59.440,0:06:05.680
you go you do this and you have a sugar push and 
whatever, you know. Um, so did you do West Coast

0:06:05.680,0:06:12.240
swing before? So, the funny thing is like I went 
into fusion specifically because when I first

0:06:12.240,0:06:17.200
started learning dance, this is going way off 
topic now. So, it's okay, we're stalling because

0:06:17.200,0:06:29.440
Alex isn't here. Okay. Uh, I started learning 
dance from Fanime. Stop it. What? Fanime offered

0:06:29.440,0:06:36.240
uh free beginner ballroom lessons. That is so 
insanely random. So hilarious. I mean, from what

0:06:36.240,0:06:45.360
I heard, the San Jose ballroom community is huge. 
They offered uh free ballroom classes at Fanime

0:06:45.360,0:06:53.040
throughout the weekend. Uh, and it culminates 
to into a Sunday night black and white ball,

0:06:53.040,0:07:00.480
which is a formal ballroom dance event at Fanime 
where people will dress up and what? In gowns.

0:07:00.480,0:07:06.160
That's wild. Have you guys been? Yeah. Yeah. I 
took him. Wait, was it last year? Yeah, I took

0:07:06.160,0:07:10.480
him last year for the first time. I had no in San 
Jose, right? Together. Yeah, San Jose. Oh my god.

0:07:10.480,0:07:14.400
Brad and I are always talking about going and then 
we just like end up not going. But I had no idea

0:07:14.400,0:07:20.880
they had that. Yeah. I specifically was like, "You 
need to come with me because you actually know how

0:07:20.880,0:07:29.360
to dance." But yeah. Okay. So, we were talking 
about how Charlie got into fusion. Yeah. And so,

0:07:29.360,0:07:35.360
you had a little bit like you had I don't know 
danced around danced around a little bit before.

0:07:35.360,0:07:42.160
So, I So, at Fanime because they offered all 
sorts of lessons. I took all of them throughout

0:07:42.160,0:07:47.680
the weekend. Wow. And it was confusing as heck 
because it'd be like morning waltz, then salsa,

0:07:47.680,0:07:55.680
then tango, then uh east coast swing, west coast 
swing, Roomba, and just like the entire day,

0:07:55.680,0:08:02.240
like for a while. When I went to Fanime, I 
stopped going to everything else and I just went

0:08:02.240,0:08:11.040
to the their ballroom lessons. I just spend the 
entire day in their ballroom lesson place. Wait,

0:08:11.040,0:08:18.720
so how long were you doing that before you 
started Fusion? Like 2 years. Okay. And so So

0:08:18.720,0:08:23.440
you didn't like walk into Fusion with no dance 
experience? Yeah. I I had beginner experience

0:08:23.440,0:08:31.280
in every single except right. And then I told 
Ringo, I was like, "Oh man, I really like dance,

0:08:31.280,0:08:39.200
but it's so confusing because, you know, I've only 
taken dance lessons at Fanime and nowhere else. No

0:08:39.200,0:08:45.680
other time of the year do I dance and it's all 
a m like a mashup of different dance styles."

0:08:45.680,0:08:52.080
And Ringo is like, "That sounds like fusion. You 
should come with me to Firehouse 5." Oh my gosh.

0:08:52.080,0:08:56.160
Cuz that's what I was going to say. I'm like, you 
having like just a tiny bit of dance experience

0:08:56.160,0:09:01.440
with everything. Mhm. Like must have been Yeah. 
perfect for it. It going back to how we how we

0:09:01.440,0:09:12.160
met. Uh Ringo and Jonathan took me to Firehouse 5, 
which is uh our Sacramento's local dance studio.

0:09:12.160,0:09:19.840
I think it was on a Sunday that they took me 
there and they introduced me to Alex. Wait, Alex,

0:09:19.840,0:09:25.200
how did you how do you know Ringo and Johnny? Just 
because you all were at the same studio or Yeah.

0:09:25.200,0:09:33.600
So, uh, we've all been like dancing fusion for 
a really long time. So, uh, I think I met Ringo

0:09:33.600,0:09:41.520
in the Bay Area, um, when he was at a fusion venue 
there. And then Jonathan I met here in tech. Well,

0:09:41.520,0:09:50.320
shout out to Ringo and Jonathan for forming what 
we know today. Yep. So, you guys met at a Sunday

0:09:50.320,0:09:56.960
night blues or uh, fusion night? My gosh, did 
I just say blues? Yes, it's fine. It's okay.

0:09:56.960,0:10:06.400
Blues fusion is a blues fusion. Okay, so me being 
a still beginner to dance and like not super used

0:10:06.400,0:10:13.600
to like these kind of social partner dance events 
or like venues is very different from anything

0:10:13.600,0:10:21.840
I've ever experienced. Um, one of the things that 
they frequently tell beginners like me is to get

0:10:21.840,0:10:28.000
used to dancing with multiple people, multiple 
partners. It's completely okay to just switch

0:10:28.000,0:10:33.920
off from partner to partner to partner because 
that's how you get better. Now, I knew that going

0:10:33.920,0:10:43.280
in and like before before going to Firehouse, 
I had um gone to the UC Davis Ballroom Club on

0:10:43.280,0:10:50.000
campus because they offer they also offer like 
free beginner lessons and like one hour of free

0:10:50.000,0:10:57.200
beginner lessons and then one hour after of social 
dance which basically allows you to practice but

0:10:57.200,0:11:05.920
it's still very different from dance venues. So, 
I went feeling very very insecure and thinking,

0:11:05.920,0:11:11.360
"Oh my god, everyone here is such a good 
dancer. This does not compare to anything

0:11:11.360,0:11:16.560
I've ever experienced." For sure. Um because up 
until then, I've been surrounded by, you know,

0:11:16.560,0:11:22.720
college students. And is this the venue that you 
took me and Janice that one time? Yes. Okay. Cuz

0:11:22.720,0:11:26.720
I think I felt that way too cuz we didn't go 
to the lesson. There's like a lesson before,

0:11:26.720,0:11:32.000
right? Yeah. And so we didn't go to the lesson. We 
just went to the dance and I felt bad because like

0:11:32.000,0:11:36.960
I feel like every partner that I danced with was 
so good. I just like wasn't cuz I didn't know very

0:11:36.960,0:11:41.840
much about it and I just felt like I'm like sorry 
that you're wasting this song on me. That doesn't

0:11:41.840,0:11:48.000
happen. It's not it's not like in an intimidating 
way. I think it's just everyone is just so so good

0:11:48.000,0:11:53.440
and so like talented. I was just like, "Oh my 
god, you guys are so cool." For a while there,

0:11:53.440,0:11:59.680
I would preface every dance with everyone just 
saying like, "Just so you know, I'm a beginner.

0:11:59.680,0:12:04.240
Is that okay?" And of course, they everyone would 
be like, "Of course it's okay. That's no problem."

0:12:04.240,0:12:08.560
And they probably get that a lot. Now I'm on the 
opposite end where like sometimes occasionally

0:12:08.560,0:12:12.400
I'll get someone who will be like, "I don't really 
know how to dance. Is that okay?" I'm like, "It's

0:12:12.400,0:12:18.320
fine." And I feel like I'm looking at myself from 
like years past. I'm like, "Oh my god, it's okay.

0:12:18.320,0:12:24.240
Let me dance with you." So, you were a beginner 
at Fire, what is it called? Firehouse 5. Firehouse

0:12:24.240,0:12:30.000
5. Alex, you'd been there for like years. 
Years. So, you were like a veteran. Yeah. Um,

0:12:30.000,0:12:37.120
a regular. I've been dancing for about 10 years. 
Yeah. As long as our friendship. Yeah. Yeah. So,

0:12:37.120,0:12:41.040
if y'all remember in Jesse's episode, Jesse and 
Chelsea's episode, we were talking about Kasama.

0:12:41.040,0:12:46.480
You know, that's how we all met. After college, I 
kind of stopped dancing a lot, as did, you know,

0:12:46.480,0:12:53.520
most people in the club. But Alex kept up with 
it. Not me. Yeah. It became like like your thing,

0:12:53.520,0:12:57.920
which is really cool. So, what was what was your 
guys' first impressions of each other when you

0:12:57.920,0:13:04.400
first met? If you remember. Do you remember? 
I do. Uh, I remember there was this girl who

0:13:04.400,0:13:11.120
would talk really fast and show everyone like 
food pictures on her phone. And I was like,

0:13:11.120,0:13:19.440
"Okay, okay. I still I'm I'm like very very 
awkward in these kind of situations where like

0:13:19.440,0:13:25.520
I'm I'm at a place where the majority of people 
I'm unfamiliar with and I'm intimidated because

0:13:25.520,0:13:32.080
they are obviously more talented than me and I'm 
like what do I do? Everybody likes food. Look at

0:13:32.080,0:13:40.800
these food pictures I have. I'm awkward. Break 
the ice somehow. When it comes to like certain

0:13:40.800,0:13:47.120
socializing events, I get really awkward and 
I'm like I don't know what to do. I genuinely

0:13:47.120,0:13:51.360
do not I like that surprises me cuz like Brad's 
like, "Have I ever met Charlie?" And I was like,

0:13:51.360,0:13:57.920
"No, I just met her for the first time uh at that 
dinner. You melded into the group so easily." Oh,

0:13:57.920,0:14:03.040
really? Yeah. Like I did not get awkward at all. 
Okay, cool. Thank god. Yeah. Well, but I Okay,

0:14:03.040,0:14:07.040
but like this is like very low stakes. It's 
just like a, you know, dinner with friends.

0:14:07.040,0:14:13.680
Like I can imagine at, you know, this brand new 
place with just a lot of people at the venue,

0:14:13.680,0:14:20.880
all of them are so talented and all of them are 
so hot. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. We'll get into

0:14:20.880,0:14:26.400
that a little bit. Dancers are hot. Dancers are 
hot. Like just inherently dancers inherently. Was

0:14:26.400,0:14:30.320
that like part of your first impression? You're 
like, "Wow, everyone's so talented and everyone's

0:14:30.320,0:14:36.560
so attractive." Yes. That must have been really 
stress, like overwhelming. like, "Oh my god,

0:14:36.560,0:14:44.720
Ringo, Ringo, Jonathan, where did you take me?" 
I was surrounded by all these hotties and who are

0:14:44.720,0:14:52.480
talented and they're so friendly, too. I'm like, 
"Oh my god, I was so intimidated. Alex stood out,

0:14:52.480,0:14:59.120
not just because Ringo and Jonathan introduced me 
to him." I remember they especially pointed out

0:14:59.120,0:15:04.240
Alex saying like, "You should dance with Alex." I 
asked him for a dance. And when we first danced,

0:15:04.240,0:15:10.320
I was like, "This is really nice." A you're 
Oh my gosh, this is so nice. So by then you

0:15:10.320,0:15:15.520
had danced with a few people, right? But then 
like it felt different with Alex. Yeah. Like I

0:15:15.520,0:15:21.440
remember thinking there was a certain tenseness 
with everyone else that I dance with because I

0:15:21.440,0:15:27.120
was thinking like, "Oh god, I need to make sure 
I I'm not disappointing them or anything." But

0:15:27.120,0:15:34.080
with Alex, Alex, like one of the things is like 
now I will specifically go like, "Alex, there's

0:15:34.080,0:15:42.160
a there's a new person. Go dance with them." So 
you're the designated new new person. Yeah. Well,

0:15:42.160,0:15:46.400
no, because like if there's a new person, like 
obviously you want them to like come back and to

0:15:46.400,0:15:50.960
enjoy themselves. So they're just like, "Alex, 
like help people enjoy." You have that effect

0:15:50.960,0:15:57.360
though. Yeah, definitely. There are there are 
plenty of really talented people at at Firehouse.

0:15:57.360,0:16:04.160
Being a skilled dancer doesn't necessarily equate 
to being enjoyable dancer, if that makes sense,

0:16:04.160,0:16:09.840
for newbies, right? And so I remember dancing 
with him for the first time thinking like this

0:16:09.840,0:16:17.680
is so different from anyone else I've ever danced 
with. And like it was love at first dance. It felt

0:16:17.680,0:16:28.480
like it. It felt like oh my god. Uh after dance 
we had like our a big friend group go get tacos.

0:16:28.480,0:16:33.760
This part he doesn't remember for some reason. 
No, I remember this. It's just I thought we had

0:16:33.760,0:16:39.920
met before this, but apparently the time I was 
thinking of was after this. We went to go get

0:16:39.920,0:16:47.920
tacos and it was raining and we were all sitting 
along a bench and I was sitting on the edge so a

0:16:47.920,0:16:53.760
little bit of the rain was catching my shoulder 
and I I didn't mind but uh Charlie was adamant

0:16:53.760,0:17:01.840
that I scoot closer. The taco place had only 
outdoor seating. It was kind of like a patio area

0:17:01.840,0:17:08.560
with like very basic grooving cover, whatever. 
The seating was like picnic benches where the

0:17:08.560,0:17:16.080
benches are connected to the the table. So, we 
all squeezed into one. I was sitting a little bit

0:17:16.080,0:17:25.520
diagonally to Alex, like kind of in the middleish 
and Alex was at the end. the rain was dripping

0:17:25.520,0:17:32.720
from the roof onto his shoulder and I saw that 
he specifically scooted all the way to the end

0:17:32.720,0:17:39.840
to make room for the rest of our friends and I was 
like that is so sweet. But the thing is I was also

0:17:39.840,0:17:45.840
noticing like okay the rest of the people on that 
side they they seemed like they were sitting quite

0:17:45.840,0:17:54.160
comfortably right and Alex was like making himself 
smaller and like squeezing on the end. You really

0:17:54.160,0:18:01.200
take up more space and I was like Alex you're 
you're getting rain dripping on your shoulder. You

0:18:01.200,0:18:07.600
guys can like go in a little. Everyone else like 
oh no Alex just kind of goes I don't know what

0:18:07.600,0:18:13.280
you're talking about. I'm doing this on purpose. 
Did you say that, Alex? Looking back on it now,

0:18:13.280,0:18:17.920
it was a very Alex thing to do. And it was just 
like I don't know what you're talking about. And

0:18:17.920,0:18:24.560
I'm like, "Oh my god, he's funny, too." That is 
so cute. Like every single thing that he did,

0:18:24.560,0:18:31.440
you're just like, "Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow. He's 
sweet. He's funny. He's good to dance with." A It

0:18:31.440,0:18:37.600
was pretty immediate for you. Pretty immediate. 
Yes. Oh, so sweet. I was like, "Oh my god." And

0:18:37.600,0:18:46.240
like afterwards uh we just I kept on going 
to Firehouse. It wasn't like a super regular

0:18:46.240,0:18:54.880
thing at the time. He would regularly drive to the 
Bay Area uh to Oakland for like East Bay Fusion,

0:18:54.880,0:19:03.440
right? Yeah. Really? Do you still? Uh not as much. 
Okay. How often were you going? Quite often. At

0:19:03.440,0:19:08.960
one point driving. At one point it was like almost 
every week. That's wild. Every single week. Uh,

0:19:08.960,0:19:14.160
and on a Tuesday. You just love dancing that much. 
Wait, before before we keep going though, what

0:19:14.160,0:19:20.240
was the memory that you had or what did what was 
it that you thought was your first meeting? So,

0:19:20.240,0:19:26.880
similar story, but um instead of tacos, we went 
to a bar after. I think that was the most I had

0:19:26.880,0:19:33.280
spoken with Charlie. So, then what happened at the 
bar? Uh, nothing really noteworthy. was just the

0:19:33.280,0:19:41.440
most I so I I didn't socialize that much at at 
Firehouse I do a lot more now but so during the

0:19:41.440,0:19:48.320
after so after firehouse is where I did most of 
my socializing and that's when I spoke the most to

0:19:48.320,0:19:52.080
Charlie your first impression of her when she came 
for the first time was like oh there's this girl

0:19:52.080,0:19:57.440
who's like showing food and like yeah she talks 
really fast and shows and shows pictures of food

0:19:57.440,0:20:04.480
she was really nice and friendly okay so for for 
Charlie you were like oh My god, like he's like so

0:20:04.480,0:20:11.280
great. Okay. And like almost immediately, but like 
it was it like grad more gradually for you? So,

0:20:11.280,0:20:17.360
you know how I'm like really oblivious to? I 
didn't want to say it. So, I'm happy that you

0:20:17.360,0:20:24.960
bring it up. Yes. Yes. Like, so insanely so. Yeah. 
So, in my mind, I'm like, "Oh, this girl is just

0:20:24.960,0:20:29.600
being nice. She's being friendly." Okay. Okay. 
Okay. So, it didn't even like cross your mind

0:20:29.600,0:20:38.400
that it could be more than that. At the time, 
I was kind of in between relationships. I had

0:20:38.400,0:20:50.320
uh just gotten through a lot. My cat had just died 
and and then I broke up with uh my then boyfriend

0:20:50.320,0:20:56.960
and then I like moved and then I just went through 
a lot. There was a lot of like change. Yeah,

0:20:56.960,0:21:03.840
there was a lot of change and I was trying to 
get used to Sacramento and uh just put all my

0:21:03.840,0:21:12.320
focus on dance. It was it really became like my 
hyperfixation for like the whole year. Yeah. I

0:21:12.320,0:21:16.960
mean, it's a good hyperfixation when you're going 
through a lot of stuff, right? It's like you're

0:21:16.960,0:21:21.280
meeting a lot of people, you're dancing, you 
know, you're exercising, but then you're also

0:21:21.280,0:21:28.240
just like I don't know. Dancing is so it's so much 
fun. It's a form of like a physical meditation

0:21:28.240,0:21:33.680
practice for me. Especially when you're thinking 
about fusion and the whole Oh, musicality. So,

0:21:33.680,0:21:41.840
you're listening to the song. It like forces you 
to be like present. Yeah. Very mindful. Mhm. So,

0:21:41.840,0:21:47.040
for a while it was just like you guys were friends 
because you, you know, went to the same dance

0:21:47.040,0:21:52.720
theater. You danced together a lot, I'm assuming, 
and then hung out after. like when did it start

0:21:52.720,0:22:02.000
like developing for you guys? Uh, so we would go 
to the bay more often. I think that's when like I

0:22:02.000,0:22:07.280
I started to think I'm hanging out with Charlie 
a lot more than Oh, like you guys would come to

0:22:07.280,0:22:13.360
the bay like just the two of you? Mhm. Okay. And 
that's to the Oakland. Uh they're in other places.

0:22:13.360,0:22:21.040
Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Um, so at one point like 
we basically were going to dance uh very very

0:22:21.040,0:22:28.560
frequently. So like Sunday Firehouse and then 
like we didn't go to Shades that often but Shades

0:22:28.560,0:22:36.160
is Monday nights. Tuesdays was East Bay Fusion, 
Wednesday was Firehouse again. Um, wow. like every

0:22:36.160,0:22:44.160
day. I think Thursdays were free and Fridays were 
free and then Saturdays like every other Saturday

0:22:44.160,0:22:50.640
would be Mission Fusion in San Francisco. So Oh 
my gosh. So you were driving like all over. Yeah.

0:22:50.640,0:22:58.400
And well, Alex was driving all over. The thing is, 
Alex at the time would go very frequently and so,

0:22:58.400,0:23:06.720
um, Firehouse has like a carpool chat and so 
I would very frequently see Alex's name pop

0:23:06.720,0:23:13.600
up in the carpool chat and be like, "Oh, let's 
carpool." Yeah. And eventually it became more of

0:23:13.600,0:23:21.120
a like the two of us going to uh carpooling to 
dance very frequently, constantly, like on the

0:23:21.120,0:23:29.200
regular. And it just started feeling like it's 
just the two of us. Yeah. Like and outside of

0:23:29.200,0:23:35.280
just carpulling to dance, I was like, we can hang 
out more. Yeah. Like Yeah. Like you said, Alex,

0:23:35.280,0:23:39.600
it wasn't just dance that you guys were doing 
together. Well, I mean, yeah, but like when

0:23:39.600,0:23:44.000
you would go to the bay, I guess like you would do 
other things. It was still centered around dance,

0:23:44.000,0:23:50.800
but we would sometimes be like, "Oh, let's eat 
together before dance or something." or like after

0:23:50.800,0:23:58.160
dance we just like oh let's have afters but the 
afters would be just the two of us a nice we call

0:23:58.160,0:24:04.480
it afters but it was really like mini dates but it 
wasn't like you didn't name it as dates we didn't

0:24:04.480,0:24:11.040
name it as dates but in my mind I was like we're 
getting close okay so you both were aware that you

0:24:11.040,0:24:16.640
were spending a lot more time together and that 
it was like not just for me it was by design I

0:24:16.640,0:24:25.200
was plotting oh so This was purposeful. Yes. For 
me. Yeah. And you had no idea. I was like, you had

0:24:25.200,0:24:31.440
no idea. This was just another hangout. This is 
largely going to be from my perspective because

0:24:31.440,0:24:40.880
I had the plans. So, what were your plans? So, 
like eventually I got used to dancing a lot and

0:24:40.880,0:24:48.240
like being in the community more. And uh one thing 
about me is like this is also how I figured out I

0:24:48.240,0:24:58.640
was polyamorous. So like background we're both 
polyamorous and before uh meeting him I hadn't

0:24:58.640,0:25:06.160
really had any experience then at all. Um, but 
when I met him, Firehouse, just for the record,

0:25:06.160,0:25:14.000
just has a lot of pe people who are polyamorous. 
And it was basically the first time I got any info

0:25:14.000,0:25:23.600
on that. And I was curious. Um, and one of the 
things is like my attraction to people from from

0:25:23.600,0:25:31.440
a very young age has always been like uh I don't 
know how how else to put this based off of how

0:25:31.440,0:25:38.160
impressive they are to me. I guess interesting. 
And so like there will be times where I'll like

0:25:38.160,0:25:43.120
meet people be like, "Okay, cool. They're nice." 
And then they do something that like is really

0:25:43.120,0:25:50.000
impressive and I'm like, "Oh my god." Okay, that's 
you're talented. you're skilled is like a passion

0:25:50.000,0:25:56.160
kind of thing. No, I I can see that though. 
It's like it's almost like watching people be

0:25:56.160,0:26:02.480
so passionate and talented at something just like 
makes someone go from like I don't know. Yeah.

0:26:02.480,0:26:08.640
Exactly. Exactly. And so because of that like I 
So you were attracted to a bunch of Yeah. The I

0:26:08.640,0:26:13.120
was I would get attracted to a bunch of people 
and be like this is not right. this is like

0:26:13.120,0:26:20.480
not normal or whatever because you know everyone 
would be like oh you have one partner and that's

0:26:20.480,0:26:25.920
only like one person you're only allowed to have 
one partner you're only allowed to be attracted

0:26:25.920,0:26:32.720
to one partner blah blah blah and I'm like but 
there are so many talented people in the world

0:26:32.720,0:26:39.840
and like my attraction to my attraction to him 
was pretty instant uh and so this is part of

0:26:39.840,0:26:45.680
your plot and and I was like woo and he's he had 
told me before that he was Polly and I was like

0:26:45.680,0:26:52.720
I don't know what that is but that sounds really 
interesting. I eventually got into my head like

0:26:52.720,0:27:04.400
I'm going to get this boy. But the thing is to 
me he seemed so calm and soothing and like that's

0:27:04.400,0:27:11.840
true very mature and like very patient and I'm 
like man I'm just kind of a goober at these kind

0:27:11.840,0:27:18.400
of things. I'm the kind of person be like hey I 
like you let's go out but which is probably what

0:27:18.400,0:27:25.280
he needed honestly but like for some reason in my 
head I'm like I can't just blurt it out. It would

0:27:25.280,0:27:32.480
be so like I don't know maybe he'll think that I'm 
just too blunt of a or crass of a person. I need

0:27:32.480,0:27:39.920
to be smooth like him. That is so funny because 
like I feel like if you had just done that like

0:27:39.920,0:27:44.400
how I don't know this is a hard question to ask 
because you know how she is now but like what do

0:27:44.400,0:27:48.080
you think you would have or how do you think you 
would have responded to that if she were to just

0:27:48.080,0:27:53.040
be like hey I like you let's go out. I mean 
like yeah let's go on a date. Exactly. That's

0:27:53.040,0:27:59.920
what I would see him just being like, "Okay, I'm 
a simple man." You are a very simple man. Which

0:27:59.920,0:28:03.840
is so funny cuz like Charlie's over here like, 
"Okay, I need to like I have to like, you know,

0:28:03.840,0:28:09.920
scheme and like come up with a plan and you know, 
figure this out how to swindle him." Swindle him.

0:28:09.920,0:28:17.600
Exactly. The thing is like like in the past I've 
had partners where like I literally just like,

0:28:17.600,0:28:24.800
"All right, let's do it." Um, and that's fine, 
too. But it was like based off of vibes that I

0:28:24.800,0:28:32.960
get from each person. If I felt like that kind of 
approach would be the best, then I'll just like,

0:28:32.960,0:28:38.000
yeah, I'll go for it. But for some reason with 
Alex, I'm like, I can't just do that. I need to

0:28:38.000,0:28:44.480
ease into it. I need to like slide into his DMs. 
Oh my god. So, all the car pools, all the afters,

0:28:44.480,0:28:50.880
all the like I need to I need to like, you know, 
hang out with him more and like we need to get

0:28:50.880,0:28:57.760
closer. And I already kind of figured like we 
need to get closer as friends like on my end to

0:28:57.760,0:29:05.200
see like if this is going to work out or anything, 
but most of all is like I had the hots for him.

0:29:06.000,0:29:17.520
I I love that. Like you were so immediate 
like when Okay, Alex, my oblivious friend.

0:29:17.520,0:29:22.560
When When did it start for you? When did it become 
like, "Oh, this is just like a girl that I dance

0:29:22.560,0:29:30.640
with that's, you know, friendly and that we're 
friends to like, okay, we started making out."

0:29:30.640,0:29:33.760
I can imagine it became pretty clear then.

0:29:36.720,0:29:41.520
Just a natural progression of things. 
Exactly. Go, you know, go to actors,

0:29:41.520,0:29:45.360
go to car pooling, and all of a sudden 
the transition was seamless. There was

0:29:45.360,0:29:53.440
no flip. And then he was all of a sudden 
just like Yeah. Like Okay. Like, hey,

0:29:53.440,0:29:58.240
wait, who made the first move though? Was it 
you? Me? Okay. Yeah. I I figured you would not

0:29:58.240,0:30:06.960
have that. I don't know. How could you have gone 
more like clear? Yeah, sure. But I mean like I

0:30:06.960,0:30:15.440
I'm the kind of person to make the first move 
pretty for sure. I'm I'm impatient. And I also

0:30:15.440,0:30:21.680
can appreciate the like the cautiousness that 
uh guys go through to be like, "Okay, maybe I'm

0:30:21.680,0:30:27.840
reading this wrong or sorry." No, you just like 
you're like Mr. Miata. You just like grabbed it.

0:30:28.880,0:30:34.320
It was a slowmoving bug, fly, whatever. I don't 
know. It was just right in front of me. So,

0:30:34.320,0:30:40.720
grab and catch and release. I like saw it and then 
it just was gone. Yeah, it's gone now. Anyways,

0:30:40.720,0:30:48.320
I carpulled with Alex all the way to SF and then 
after dance, we were driving back and I felt kind

0:30:48.320,0:30:54.880
of like car sick. I wasn't feeling too well. It 
was also really late at night um because it ended

0:30:54.880,0:31:03.520
at like midnight or something to drive back and 
so by the time we got back to sack it was like

0:31:03.520,0:31:11.600
1:30. We came back to his place and originally I 
was just going to like drive home but I was still

0:31:11.600,0:31:17.120
feeling kind of woozy and unwell and he was really 
sweet. He was like are you feeling okay? And got

0:31:17.120,0:31:23.680
me water. He like took care of me and he was like, 
"You can you can stay overnight if you want to

0:31:23.680,0:31:32.720
rest." And I was like, "Okay." Um, and then, uh, 
you getting nauseous, which is part of your plan.

0:31:32.720,0:31:39.040
No, it was literally kind of just like, "All 
right, I'm just going to go with the flow." Um,

0:31:39.040,0:31:46.320
and so we didn't feel sleepy yet, uh, even though 
it was really late. And so we talked and like

0:31:46.320,0:31:53.760
we got closer and we like started teasing and 
flirting or I was flirting and then somehow the

0:31:53.760,0:32:01.840
like the topic of like ticklish spots came up just 
you know casual conversation and and so I started

0:32:01.840,0:32:07.280
tickling him and then he started tickling me and 
then we got into a wrestling match. Wow. This is

0:32:07.280,0:32:16.480
like And then I started to uh get closer to him 
and eventually he like gave you an opening. It got

0:32:16.480,0:32:23.120
to a point where he was very very sweet. He paused 
and he was like, "So this is getting kind of hot

0:32:23.120,0:32:29.840
and heavy. Are you okay with this?" I was thinking 
like, we love consent. What? This is the funniest

0:32:29.840,0:32:35.040
consent is important. This is the funniest thing 
ever because I'm like, "Oh, this is so sweet." But

0:32:35.040,0:32:42.880
also, we're in the middle of interrupting. I am on 
top of him. I am participating very actively. And

0:32:42.880,0:32:49.360
he still took the time to be like, "Hey, is this 
okay?" And I love a respectful king. God, he's so

0:32:49.360,0:32:54.000
sweet. I was like, "Yes, a very enthusiastic yes." 
And then we started making out. So then for you,

0:32:54.000,0:32:58.400
Alex, it was like, well, I don't know. I'm 
curious. Like, do you remember what was

0:32:58.400,0:33:01.360
going through your mind when all of this started 
progressing? I was like, "Okay, here's this girl

0:33:01.360,0:33:04.480
who's car sick. I'm just going to like she's 
my friend. and I'm going to let her stay the

0:33:04.480,0:33:11.040
night. And then all of a sudden, we're tickling 
each other and making out. Somewhere between the

0:33:11.040,0:33:20.160
car and making out, it clicked. I'm assuming yes. 
Yeah, it was kind of a spur-of-the- moment thing.

0:33:20.160,0:33:27.200
It was unlike this one. I wasn't planning on 
anything. Um, hey, hey, hey. I wasn't planning

0:33:27.200,0:33:33.280
exactly that. All right. If if I had planned 
anything, I wouldn't have planned it to do it that

0:33:33.280,0:33:38.000
night after I was feeling woozy and stuff. I would 
have been like, "Okay, I need to make sure that

0:33:38.000,0:33:44.080
I'm all like prettied up and gussied up and I'm 
not going to be like, "Oh, this guy just saw me

0:33:44.080,0:33:56.480
feeling like car sick. Now I'm going to climb on 
top of him." Then after then after um we were I'm

0:33:56.480,0:34:03.040
going to tease you about this. So, uh, we hung out 
a lot more often. And so, you guys were just like,

0:34:03.040,0:34:11.600
you know, by then you had crossed that line. 
You guys weren't together. You guys were just,

0:34:11.600,0:34:16.240
hey, I just want you to know I want to keep 
things casual. And I was like, okay, yeah,

0:34:16.240,0:34:24.240
sure. I was fine with that. Um, why is your 
reaction, Charlie? Keep going. Okay. Okay. Like,

0:34:24.240,0:34:29.440
I knew it wasn't going to be casual. was 
like, "We're we're going to be dating." Wait,

0:34:29.440,0:34:34.080
how did you know? So, she she 
was adamant about like, "Hey,

0:34:34.080,0:34:41.680
I want to keep things like this is fun, but I 
don't want to commit to anything." I'm like,

0:34:41.680,0:34:46.880
"You spent the past two weeks at my house. 
That's not casual." Okay. So, Charlie,

0:34:46.880,0:34:54.320
you like and you know, unknowing to you, she had 
like had this whole like plot to swindle you. Mhm.

0:34:54.320,0:35:00.800
And then all of a sudden she finally has you and 
she's like actually like let's keep things casual.

0:35:00.800,0:35:05.760
Okay. Okay. Okay. In my defense, all 
right, the whole like spending a lot

0:35:05.760,0:35:14.400
of time together thing isn't super out 
of the ordinary for me because wait,

0:35:14.400,0:35:20.400
you you you've had like an episode previously 
with lesbians. It's just like okay, you you

0:35:20.400,0:35:28.320
meet 3 days later you move in together. 
That kind of thing, you know? Okay.

0:35:28.320,0:35:34.960
So, it's like you It was for you. For For me, 
it was like uh a lot of my past relationships

0:35:34.960,0:35:42.480
had been like we get really really close in 
a very short amount of time and and it's like

0:35:42.480,0:35:50.000
really intense. Yeah. Yeah. And that that's 
like I guess kind of like my personal problem

0:35:50.000,0:35:58.000
is like I get that uh honeymoon sort of 
period but like really really intensely

0:35:58.000,0:36:05.520
like I have ADHD so it's almost like a shut up. 
So it's almost like a hyperfixation thing. I

0:36:05.520,0:36:12.240
see like oh new novel thing I want to learn 
everything about this person blah blah blah

0:36:12.240,0:36:16.880
blah but then it sounds really really bad 
when I say it out loud but then it cools

0:36:16.880,0:36:23.120
down a bit after no no this is like something 
that I think a lot of people can relate to and

0:36:23.120,0:36:29.920
so I'm just like okay I need to make sure 
that I don't like lovebomb him and then

0:36:29.920,0:36:34.720
you wanted to like pace yourself yeah and so 
I was like okay let I want to keep it casual

0:36:35.600,0:36:44.240
and like take it easy because we had been spending 
a lot of time together and I was like, "Oh, fuck."

0:36:44.240,0:36:49.600
Was it scary or like, you know, concerning for you 
how much time you guys were spending together? Um,

0:36:49.600,0:36:59.280
it was more on my end. I didn't want to like risk 
hurting him. Okay. Because I have in the past,

0:36:59.280,0:37:04.960
I'm very sorry to my past partners. I have 
hurt people in the past where I would be

0:37:04.960,0:37:13.040
uh more I guess intense than they were used 
to in a partner and they would take it as like

0:37:13.040,0:37:19.600
uh being really in love and all that stuff. And 
then for me though that was like it was just like

0:37:19.600,0:37:27.440
the excitement the honeymoon excitement honeymoon. 
And also for me my level of intensess for to other

0:37:27.440,0:37:32.480
people other people will like frequently say why 
are you yelling? Why are you talking so fast? And

0:37:32.480,0:37:36.720
I'm like, what are you talking about? This is my 
normal voice. I'm not talking too loud. I'm not

0:37:36.720,0:37:40.960
talking too fast or anything. This is my This 
is normal. What are you talking about? Uh but

0:37:40.960,0:37:45.920
then because I get that so often, I'll be like 
common denominator is me. I'm probably talking

0:37:45.920,0:37:54.560
too loud and fast for other people. And so it's 
kind of like that for sure. They're just like,

0:37:54.560,0:38:00.080
"Yeah, I mean, I have thoughts about that, but I 
think that like you are who you are, and people

0:38:00.080,0:38:04.480
who have thoughts about that are just, you know, 
they're going to have thoughts. They're just going

0:38:04.480,0:38:10.720
to have thoughts." Yeah. At the same time, I want 
to respect that like, uh, even though it's not my

0:38:10.720,0:38:19.280
intention to love bomb someone, the fact remains 
that I had that influence on someone and it hurt

0:38:19.280,0:38:26.320
them. For me, I wanted to make sure I wasn't 
unintentionally like being ignorant of my own

0:38:26.320,0:38:33.520
actions and uh misleading someone, leading someone 
on. And so that's why I said like, "Okay, let's

0:38:33.520,0:38:40.400
keep it casual and like light and stuff." And he 
was like, "Okay." And at the time also Yeah, sure.

0:38:40.400,0:38:49.200
Okay. Yeah, sure. You saw her do it though. And 
uh at the time also I was still new to polyamory

0:38:49.200,0:38:56.640
and I didn't really know all the ins and outs and 
how that worked and stuff and he was like my first

0:38:56.640,0:39:03.040
poly partner. I never been in a relationship with 
someone who would be like, "Oh, yeah. If you go

0:39:03.040,0:39:11.040
on dates, that's fine." Right. And then I'm like, 
"Wait." Okay. So, Alex, like when we were friends

0:39:11.040,0:39:16.000
in college, you were not You did not identify as 
Polly. Nope. Right. It wasn't until you started

0:39:16.000,0:39:21.440
dancing. Was it specifically at Firehouse or 
is it just like just in general? Really? So,

0:39:21.440,0:39:30.560
like everywhere? Everywhere. Like dancers are just 
like very commonly poly. Yeah. So, well, fusion no

0:39:30.560,0:39:37.600
anywhere really. Like it's a it's a stereotype 
that if you meet a fusion dancer like I guess

0:39:37.600,0:39:43.680
like fusion isn't super widespread but if you meet 
a fusion dancer and they'll probably say they're

0:39:43.680,0:39:50.000
poly or like if you meet a poly person and they 
say they dance they probably dance fusion because

0:39:50.000,0:39:56.480
like so I remember very vaguely honestly a lot 
has happened in 10 years but like I remember this

0:39:56.480,0:40:00.080
progression for you like when we were in college 
you didn't identify as Paulie but then all of a

0:40:00.080,0:40:04.800
sudden you were dancing way more. And then like 
I think you had your first Polly partner. I think

0:40:04.800,0:40:12.000
I met them. I forget. At a rave maybe. I don't 
know. Um and then like I never dated her. Oh,

0:40:12.000,0:40:22.800
you're thinking about Alice? Yes. No, I I never 
Oh, you were just friends? Uh, sure. Sure. Uh,

0:40:22.800,0:40:27.920
sure. Okay. So, you can't blame me for talking 
other things. But it's okay. It's okay. Don't

0:40:27.920,0:40:35.440
worry about anyway. Holly is confusing. Alice was 
the one the first well no I don't know well okay

0:40:35.440,0:40:41.920
you can you can answer the question but like what 
was that like for you to like progressively so it

0:40:41.920,0:40:50.160
took isolation and depression for me to like sorry 
for laughing sorry now this is like surreal so

0:40:50.160,0:40:59.520
co yeah yeah so it took isolation which led to 
depression which led to some soulsearching and

0:40:59.520,0:41:08.800
uh because of that it made me realize what I'm 
okay with. And because of my depression, I think

0:41:08.800,0:41:14.400
I went on like an episode where I was like, I want 
to try everything. So, I was so adamantly against

0:41:14.400,0:41:24.160
being poly in um the dance community that I wanted 
to see what it was like, right? And oddly enough,

0:41:24.160,0:41:29.040
Alice was someone who did guide me through 
that. So when I did date someone who was poly,

0:41:29.040,0:41:35.840
I wasn't completely out in the blue, but um at 
the time I was it was a monopoly relationship.

0:41:35.840,0:41:42.320
So I was staying monogamous where my partner 
had uh other partners as well. And that kind

0:41:42.320,0:41:49.760
of progressed through each partner until I got 
more comfortable with that kind of lifestyle. And

0:41:49.760,0:41:55.440
uh the person I dated before Charlie was the 
first time I was okay with dating other partners

0:41:55.440,0:42:00.240
simultaneously with another partner. And the 
other part your other partner was also dating.

0:42:00.240,0:42:06.720
Yes. Okay. But yeah, the the odd thing was the 
things I thought I would be more concerned about

0:42:06.720,0:42:13.680
like jealousy were not as important to me or it 
didn't affect me as much as I thought it would.

0:42:13.680,0:42:19.920
But uh things that I didn't think about like time 
allocation uh were far more you still have the

0:42:19.920,0:42:28.320
same amount of time like one partner is pretty 
timeconuming alone. It's so the thing like it's

0:42:28.320,0:42:34.960
it's said over and over again but uh thing about 
being poly is you have to communicate and it is

0:42:34.960,0:42:40.880
you can't emphasize it enough because your time is 
going to be split between multiple people and you

0:42:40.880,0:42:46.560
have to communicate with your partner what you're 
okay with what you're allowed to do and uh if you

0:42:46.560,0:42:52.880
don't communicate that and you're left with that 
uncertainty you might unintentionally hurt your

0:42:52.880,0:42:58.080
partner and not even know it. Right. So, I mean, 
I love how you frame that though because it's like

0:42:58.080,0:43:01.680
you have to communicate. Yes, like everyone knows 
that you have to communicate, especially for,

0:43:01.680,0:43:06.320
you know, poly relationships, but I love what you 
said. It was like you have to communicate because

0:43:06.320,0:43:11.040
you don't want to unintentionally hurt the other 
person or other people. I mean, I guess that's why

0:43:11.040,0:43:18.000
people communicate, but it feels very intentional 
to like be respectful and be um just to care about

0:43:18.000,0:43:23.920
the other person. And uh what I think with me 
and Charlie, what makes our relationship so

0:43:23.920,0:43:30.400
healthy is like during the very beginning it was 
at least once a week we'd have about like a sit

0:43:30.400,0:43:35.680
down and be like, "Hey, is everything okay with 
this? Is there anything we need to change or like

0:43:35.680,0:43:42.960
um I'm uh Charlie might say, uh I'm going on 
this date or um are you okay with this?" And

0:43:42.960,0:43:48.240
like just checking in with each other, making 
sure we communicate what we're okay with.

0:43:48.240,0:43:54.080
Wow. Is that still something that you guys 
do today? It's more open today. So, like I

0:43:54.080,0:43:59.760
think we've developed a relationship strong enough 
where um it doesn't need to be planned. If I'm not

0:43:59.760,0:44:05.040
okay with something, I'll just say to Charlie, 
"Hey, uh this is how I feel about this. Um can

0:44:05.040,0:44:10.000
we talk about it?" But we don't need a plan like 
a date. It's more we can just discuss. Okay. So,

0:44:10.000,0:44:15.040
like that was it was like that in the beginning as 
you guys were still developing your relationship,

0:44:15.040,0:44:20.480
right? And so now that you know, you've built such 
a foundation that you don't have to, you know,

0:44:20.480,0:44:25.040
have this like structured time anymore. You just 
like you talk about it when it comes out. Mhm.

0:44:25.040,0:44:31.600
Yeah. And that's especially important because 
like uh one thing I like to do is go to like

0:44:31.600,0:44:39.680
strip clubs and like social parties and um Oh my 
god. Are you okay? I just thought I was like our

0:44:39.680,0:44:44.880
first date was at the strip club. I think Alex 
was telling me this before we started recording

0:44:44.880,0:44:53.360
and I was like I cannot wait to hear about this. 
We I I had mentioned that I like made friends with

0:44:53.360,0:44:59.040
uh sex workers and uh I had mentioned I went to 
strip club and Charlie had said she'd never been

0:44:59.040,0:45:06.000
to one before and it was like do you want to go 
to a strip club? She said yes. and uh love that.

0:45:06.000,0:45:12.560
We went to one and oddly enough we found another 
one of my friend who was a dancer there and I was

0:45:12.560,0:45:19.120
like, "Okay, that's so you didn't go to the strip 
club because your friend worked there." Okay.

0:45:19.120,0:45:24.080
You were just going and you just happened to see 
your friend. Oh god. Okay. It was like completely

0:45:24.080,0:45:31.360
impromptu random sort of thing. Uh it was again 
late night sort of thing. Um he he was like, "Do

0:45:31.360,0:45:36.400
you want to get bo with me?" I'm like, "Okay." and 
we went for a boba date and then we were talking.

0:45:36.400,0:45:43.040
He told me a story of like when he was uh a little 
bit younger with his friends and he surprised him

0:45:43.040,0:45:47.920
by saying like we're going to a strip club and his 
friends were like haha stop joking and they really

0:45:47.920,0:45:53.280
went and I'm like I want to go to a strip club and 
he was like you want to go now that is and then

0:45:53.280,0:45:58.480
we go hilarious and then we went we went that's 
actually how it started like do you want to go

0:45:58.480,0:46:02.480
now? Like you want to go now? You want to go now? 
Like, do you want to, you know, get a late night

0:46:02.480,0:46:07.760
fast food? No. Do you want to go to a strip club 
in the middle of the night? That is first date,

0:46:07.760,0:46:14.480
I guess, cuz this is the first date after like 
after making out. Okay. So, we made out for the

0:46:14.480,0:46:21.520
first time and then like we went on the the like 
late night boba date. He was like, "Let's go to a

0:46:21.520,0:46:27.520
strip club." That is amazing. So, but at the time 
it wasn't like this is our first date. It was just

0:46:27.520,0:46:35.120
you decided that later on. I mean, we'd not gone 
in a It was our first official date. Yeah. Kind

0:46:35.120,0:46:41.200
of. Yeah. Like it we've been seeing each other for 
a while. Just not gone on a date. Yeah. It was the

0:46:41.200,0:46:49.760
first kind of like post m like post me jumping 
your bones that night on Monday where you like

0:46:49.760,0:46:54.160
invited me. It's like, "Hey, do you want to go 
on a date with me and get boba?" And I was like,

0:46:54.160,0:47:01.760
"Okay." So the Boba date or the Boba run was like 
kind of a date and then this strip club was just

0:47:01.760,0:47:08.080
it was the first time we were both very aware that 
yeah we're we're into each other sort of thing,

0:47:08.080,0:47:14.240
right? We've gone out like hangouts or whatever 
before, but that night was the first night we

0:47:14.240,0:47:20.160
were both like I want to get to know you in 
a more intimate manner. Uh, for sure. And I

0:47:20.160,0:47:26.880
was like asking him all these questions to to like 
that. Now I'm like, okay, he's into me, too. I can

0:47:26.880,0:47:32.960
I'm now allowed to ask more about his past, which 
which is when we started talking about the strip

0:47:32.960,0:47:37.840
of Oh my god. How was it? That was your first 
time, right, Alex? It wasn't your first time,

0:47:37.840,0:47:44.240
but not remotely. Yeah, it was great. Alex told 
you the story about like their hour. I didn't

0:47:44.240,0:47:50.960
go. But like when we like I knew this about Alex 
very early on that he likes going to strip clubs

0:47:50.960,0:47:55.520
because once I was like not legal yet. I think 
I was like 20 years old. I was so close but we

0:47:55.520,0:48:02.560
all went to Vegas and you know Jennis and Arnell 
who you met the four of us went and my ex I think

0:48:02.560,0:48:07.280
he was also there. Yeah. So we had to stay because 
we weren't legal yet. But then like they the three

0:48:07.280,0:48:14.000
of them went to a strip club and I was so upset 
because I felt so excluded and I couldn't go if

0:48:14.000,0:48:17.760
you ever wanted to. But like it was like raining. 
There wasn't even much that we could do because

0:48:17.760,0:48:21.920
it was raining. It was like we were on the Vegas 
strip. It was just such a disappointing night.

0:48:21.920,0:48:26.880
Um and then they get back and I'm so excited. I'm 
just like, "Oh my god, tell me about it. How did

0:48:26.880,0:48:30.080
it go? How did it go? Like I can't wait to hear 
about it. I've been missing you guys so much.

0:48:30.080,0:48:36.320
Like you guys were gone all night." And then all 
of them are like, "It was okay." Oh my god. It was

0:48:36.320,0:48:40.640
fine. All three of them. All three of them. They 
had they had come up with an agreement to not tell

0:48:40.640,0:48:48.560
me anything. And they're like, "It was fine." And 
I was like, like, and they're like, "It was fine.

0:48:48.560,0:48:57.520
It was okay." And I was like, "You guys suck." 
Like, and it was I felt so excluded from this like

0:48:57.520,0:49:00.400
running joke that they were having. Eventually, 
I found out what happened and they were just

0:49:00.400,0:49:05.600
embarrassed because a lot of things happened that 
night. But what happened? Janice lost his wallet.

0:49:05.600,0:49:11.200
Jennice lost his wallet. There was other things 
that happened too, right? Like what? I don't know.

0:49:11.200,0:49:16.480
Are these things that you you want to tell me or 
do you want to I am I'm not hiding anything. I

0:49:16.480,0:49:23.440
don't know what else was embarrassing. Why were 
you guys hiding it from me? Cuz it was funny.

0:49:23.440,0:49:29.040
You guys are [ __ ] I was so upset. 
I was just like, let's just go home.

0:49:30.640,0:49:36.080
So anyways, it doesn't necessarily surprise me 
that you guys went on your first date at the

0:49:36.080,0:49:41.280
strip club, but it was your first time. So how 
was what's the verdict or what was the verdict

0:49:41.280,0:49:47.440
at the time? I mean, we've we've gone to several 
strip clubs afterwards. It was like it kind of

0:49:47.440,0:49:50.880
became our thing. Like a defining moment of 
your relationship then? It was just like it

0:49:50.880,0:49:54.800
kind of became our thing for a little bit. Just 
like let's go to that strip club or this strip

0:49:54.800,0:49:59.360
club. It was pretty it was it was pretty fun. 
Okay. So, the thing about strip clubs, cuz Brad

0:49:59.360,0:50:02.800
and I have talked about wanting to go before, 
too. But the thing about strip clubs is that,

0:50:02.800,0:50:07.680
you know, it's so easy to spend so much money. 
Yep. Just money that we don't have, you know,

0:50:07.680,0:50:12.160
well, we didn't have for a very long time 
for like, you know, 99% of our relationship,

0:50:12.160,0:50:16.960
right? So, I love that you guys go and you 
guys are just like bougie. Like, are there

0:50:16.960,0:50:24.000
a lot of strip clubs in the area? There's three 
in sack. There are several in SF. Yeah. Okay. So,

0:50:24.000,0:50:30.080
you guys would go to SF sometimes. Okay, cool. 
It was the SF1 was very reminiscent of our first

0:50:30.080,0:50:38.080
day because we went for I think dance at Mission 
Fusion. I think we went to dance at some point

0:50:38.080,0:50:42.960
and he was like, "Oh, my favorite strip club 
is nearby." You want to go? I'm like, "Okay,

0:50:42.960,0:50:47.840
let's go." So spontaneous. Spontaneous. Alex being 
spontaneous and you just hang down. And I'm like,

0:50:47.840,0:50:54.560
"All right, let's go. Let's do it." Love that. 
Love that. Wow. That's kind of like a a fun thing

0:50:54.560,0:50:59.280
that I appreciate about Alex is like the both of 
us sometimes will be like what do you want to do?

0:50:59.280,0:51:02.800
I don't know. What do you want to do? But then 
there are times where it just clicks. He's like,

0:51:02.800,0:51:08.320
"You want to do something?" And I'm like, "Let's 
do it." You are like a very present person. Like

0:51:08.320,0:51:13.760
you just think about the moment and you're just 
like, "I want this. Let's let's do it." Like why

0:51:13.760,0:51:18.320
not? Okay. So you like going to strip clubs. You 
like going to like parties and stuff like that.

0:51:18.320,0:51:24.960
So like that was something that you had to 
state early on, right? Oh no, it was a story

0:51:24.960,0:51:30.960
I had mentioned. So, the reason I go to strip 
clubs was because I wanted to practice talking

0:51:30.960,0:51:38.720
to women. Like, I I feel like that's I thought it 
was very unique because I never heard that before.

0:51:38.720,0:51:45.280
And I'm like, wow, that's a that's a very fresh 
approach and it's like no no stakes, you know,

0:51:45.280,0:51:50.400
like if you try to practice talking to women at 
bars, they might just walk away. And like, yeah,

0:51:50.400,0:51:56.160
I I think that interested Charlie and then 
we got to talking and I had mentioned that

0:51:56.160,0:52:01.600
story about when I brought my friends to strip 
club and uh we went to the strip club and it

0:52:01.600,0:52:10.000
happened to be a feature dancer night and this 
is your first date. Mhm. Okay. The dancer had

0:52:10.000,0:52:16.880
previously brought another guest on stage to do a 
private dance and Well, not exactly private. So,

0:52:16.880,0:52:23.920
there was another couple at the stage in the 
club, and she pulled one of them on stage in

0:52:23.920,0:52:30.960
front of everyone. Mhm. And danced with them 
on stage. I had intended for this dancer to

0:52:30.960,0:52:37.120
bring Charlie up on stage when she was performing 
again. But little did I know, Charlie had secretly

0:52:37.120,0:52:44.720
whispered to this dancer, "Hey, can you bring 
my boyfriend up instead? Stop in." Oh my god.

0:52:47.360,0:52:52.400
You guys are so funny. Like you guys have the 
same thought. Are you kidding me? You just you

0:52:52.400,0:52:58.720
didn't do it fast enough. So So the thing is um 
the couple that got pulled on stage earlier like

0:52:58.720,0:53:07.360
it was uh an older guy and I think his wife. 
Um and so she the dancer she pulled her up on

0:53:07.360,0:53:15.520
stage and it was like fun. Yeah. And then there 
was an intermission in between. We actually got

0:53:15.520,0:53:20.720
a private dance from her. We went to during the 
intermission. Yeah. During the intermission, Alex

0:53:20.720,0:53:26.240
was like, "Do you want to get a dance from her?" 
I'm like, "Hell yeah." And so we went to the back

0:53:26.240,0:53:33.040
room and it was very, very fun. She was very nice. 
And this was also like my first time getting like

0:53:33.040,0:53:37.920
a private dance from a stripper. And I was like, 
"This is [ __ ] great. Oh my god, that must have

0:53:37.920,0:53:46.160
been so fun. This is so fun. Charlie's by the way 
if you didn't can tell. That's very bye Pan. Okay.

0:53:46.160,0:53:52.560
Yeah. Yeah. And so gender doesn't matter. And so 
uh what Yeah. Gender doesn't matter. What matters

0:53:52.560,0:53:57.600
is if you have passion and talent. What matters 
is if you're impressive if you impress me. Very

0:53:57.600,0:54:06.080
impressive to you. Yes. Uh and and so what Alex 
didn't know is like she she had told us like, "Oh,

0:54:06.080,0:54:14.240
are you guys staying later?" Because uh later on I 
have a second dance. If you guys stay, I can like

0:54:14.240,0:54:19.200
dance like if you're at the front of the stage, I 
can dance for you guys. And we're both like, "Oh,

0:54:19.200,0:54:24.480
hell yeah." We were planning on leaving after the 
private dance, but since she said, like she told

0:54:24.480,0:54:28.880
us like she was going to perform again, we were 
both like, "Let's go sit in the in front of the

0:54:28.880,0:54:36.480
stage." At the time, we both were like, "Yeah," we 
agreed to watch her second show. And he I forget

0:54:36.480,0:54:40.960
what happened. I think he went off to either 
the bathroom or to pay or something like that,

0:54:40.960,0:54:47.120
but she was there with me. And I was like, "Later 
on when you dance, can you pull him up? you can

0:54:47.120,0:54:51.760
act like you're gonna pull me up, but I want you 
to pull him up instead. Okay. And she was like,

0:54:51.760,0:54:58.640
"Oh, okay. You sure you're okay with that?" I'm 
like, "Yes, it'll be so funny." And she's like,

0:54:58.640,0:55:03.040
"Oh, okay. As long as you're okay with it." 
Because she she she was thinking like, "We're a

0:55:03.040,0:55:10.560
couple." And she didn't want. And I was like, "Do 
it." So that was after your guys's private dance,

0:55:10.560,0:55:16.880
right? So you had already you were besties by 
that time. Yes. And then so we started I don't

0:55:16.880,0:55:21.760
remember we went up to like the bathroom or to 
pay or something like that. And then we we wait

0:55:21.760,0:55:28.640
and the second part of her show starts and she 
she comes down to the audience and dances in the

0:55:28.640,0:55:35.440
laps of some of the people and comes to us where 
we're sitting and she like gives me a lap dance

0:55:35.440,0:55:43.600
and is like I'm living up. I'm like yeah you still 
got something. And then she goes to Alex and then

0:55:43.600,0:55:50.560
she pulls him up and he's like looking at me. He's 
like, "Oh, wait. Her pointing at me, telling her

0:55:50.560,0:55:56.640
to pull me up on you asked her by then." Okay. So, 
she just listened to Charlie. She didn't listen to

0:55:56.640,0:56:01.200
you. Exactly. Of course, she's going to listen 
to He was like He was like, "Wait, we had a we

0:56:01.200,0:56:07.360
had an agreement." He's just like looking at her, 
looking at me, looking at her, and I'm just like,

0:56:07.360,0:56:14.560
"Go, go, go." Like, "You're doing great. You're 
doing great. It was great. I love that. I love

0:56:14.560,0:56:22.720
that. Yeah. Just sitting in the audience and 
they're on stage. That's amazing. Was it fun?

0:56:22.720,0:56:29.760
Yeah. That's so funny. Did she Did she pull you up 
stage, too? No. Okay. Okay. Like, she only I think

0:56:29.760,0:56:35.120
she only had time for like one person and I was 
just like I'm more entertained like watching Alex

0:56:35.120,0:56:43.680
have have an unexpected fun time. Oh, I love that. 
Wow, what a fun first date. So, by then you guys

0:56:43.680,0:56:50.800
were already established a relationship, right? 
Yeah, like still on the whole like casual. Okay.

0:56:50.800,0:56:57.440
Okay. Were you either of you were you dating any 
other partners? Um, yeah. I had sort of started

0:56:57.440,0:57:03.760
exploring the the polyamory sort of thing and I 
wasn't very good at it at first because I was,

0:57:03.760,0:57:11.920
you know, newbie and polyamory is literally just 
dating on hard mode. It really is dating on hard

0:57:11.920,0:57:21.920
mode. Uh, a lot of intentional uh dialogue and 
checking in and being mindful of everyone. And

0:57:21.920,0:57:29.040
for me it was both exciting and also a little bit 
intimidating because I was just like, "Oh my god,

0:57:29.040,0:57:37.120
this is the first time I can explore relationships 
with other people in this way where I don't have

0:57:37.120,0:57:43.600
to worry too much about like limiting yourself." 
Yeah. Limiting myself. And one of the things that

0:57:43.600,0:57:48.720
I was really impressed by with Alex is like out 
of all the relationships I've had in my life,

0:57:48.720,0:57:56.000
he's like basically the most mature person I've 
dated. He's like really patient and mature.

0:57:56.000,0:58:06.880
And one of the things that I found with a lot of 
people is like is like they'll get really clingy.

0:58:07.760,0:58:15.280
Not everyone, but I guess for most most guys I've 
dated, it felt like at a certain point I've turned

0:58:15.280,0:58:23.600
into their mom or their personal therapist. For 
sure. And I'm just like I I would at some point

0:58:23.600,0:58:30.240
stop seeing them romantically as a partner and 
instead start seeing them as like I am now your

0:58:30.240,0:58:36.480
caretaker. Right. That's so real. Yeah. And 
he wasn't like that. He would actively like

0:58:36.480,0:58:42.560
he would take care of you. He would take care of 
me. Yeah. Which was new. And he would also like

0:58:42.560,0:58:49.360
I could see when he'll stop and think about what 
he's going to say before he says it. And at first

0:58:49.360,0:58:56.960
that annoyed me a lot because he'll go never mind. 
And I'm like what what what is it? He's like what

0:58:56.960,0:59:01.280
did I do? Um but he just needed time to think 
about what he wanted to say. And the thing is

0:59:01.280,0:59:09.600
like after after several relationships of people 
bringing up storms that didn't need to be storms,

0:59:09.600,0:59:16.880
you know, I'd be like, is this really worth the 
time and drama? No. Yeah. Like why are you making

0:59:16.880,0:59:23.520
a big deal out of something that like isn't that 
big of a deal? And it's like he's got a really

0:59:23.520,0:59:33.440
good he's got good EQ. Yes, you do. Thank you. 
Yeah. Like that is such a good way to put it.

0:59:33.440,0:59:38.640
Like you're just so emotionally intelligent. 
Yes. Thanks. Yeah. I know you're not trying.

0:59:38.640,0:59:44.560
Like it's just who you are. Oh no. It took like 
failed relationship after failed relationship

0:59:44.560,0:59:48.720
to get where I am. Really? Okay. Well, I mean I 
guess I only know you as a friend and not like

0:59:48.720,0:59:54.480
as a partner, but like that must have been 
part of your whole exploring. Oh yeah. If

0:59:54.480,1:00:00.640
if Charlie was the first poly relationship I'd 
been in, I I I would not be like as successful

1:00:00.640,1:00:06.320
as I am now. What intentionality did you have 
and like the work that you did on yourself to

1:00:06.320,1:00:11.360
get to where you are now to be the kind of 
partner that you know? It was just learning

1:00:11.360,1:00:20.720
from my mistakes. Like I know now that when I f 
the first person I started dating uh trying to be

1:00:27.040,1:00:33.120
six years older than me and like had been in 
the poly scene for like well over a while and

1:00:33.120,1:00:39.600
I was still uncertain and like I didn't know 
what to do with my emotions then and it took

1:00:39.600,1:00:47.440
her and then learning what not to do, what to 
do um to get where I am. Wow. So you actually

1:00:47.440,1:00:55.520
learn from your mistakes? Yeah, I try. Yeah. Not 
a lot of people do. Like I mean before him I've

1:00:55.520,1:01:00.640
been in like relationship after relationship after 
relationship where I felt like I was the trainer

1:01:00.640,1:01:06.400
girlfriend. I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a 
really awful place to be in. For sure. And it

1:01:06.400,1:01:12.160
was like oh my god I feel like I am training this 
person to become a better partner for someone

1:01:12.160,1:01:17.120
else. Yeah. For the next person. And I'm just like 
part of me at some point was just kind of like

1:01:17.120,1:01:21.840
I've accepted it. It's okay. girl power is like, 
"All right, girl code." Not for me right now,

1:01:21.840,1:01:28.640
but hopefully for some other girly in the future, 
she she will encounter this person who is no

1:01:28.640,1:01:35.680
longer a [ __ ] It'll be because of me. It'll be 
because of me. But it was nice then with Alex,

1:01:35.680,1:01:40.720
you didn't have to teach him anything. I mean, 
like it felt like we were learning from each

1:01:40.720,1:01:46.960
other on a very equal basis. Like I felt like it 
was like give and take. I feel like I've changed

1:01:46.960,1:01:55.920
a lot in our relationship for the better and 
like learning uh how to be more patient and you

1:01:55.920,1:02:03.600
know trust my partners. Um and I don't know if you 
took anything away from me. No, this is a really

1:02:03.600,1:02:07.120
great question. This is actually a really great 
question that I don't have I didn't have planned,

1:02:07.120,1:02:11.200
but like what is something that you're taking away 
from this relationship that you know has helped

1:02:11.200,1:02:18.400
you grow? Yeah. Uh trust was something that 
we like struggled with at the very beginning.

1:02:18.400,1:02:27.600
Like there was an instance where like I I felt 
like I was paying for the mistakes of her past

1:02:27.600,1:02:35.040
relationships and like my previous girlfriend that 
was the reason we broke up. I was paying for uh

1:02:35.040,1:02:43.280
her partner's like fuckups and I felt that way in 
this instance. And at the time I didn't know how

1:02:43.280,1:02:50.400
to communicate that well and or how to communicate 
that in a non-hostile way, right? And it took a

1:02:50.400,1:03:00.320
lot of developing trust and um being rewarded with 
that trust to uh move on from that. Right. Right.

1:03:00.320,1:03:04.480
like like taking that step to trust and then 
like having it pay off and it's like okay like

1:03:04.480,1:03:10.160
you know and well and once it pays off I'm like 
okay I can trust this person with more and like

1:03:10.160,1:03:18.480
like the reason I'm okay with jealousy right now 
is because like I trust that Charlie loves me and

1:03:18.480,1:03:26.960
that she's not going to love me any less because 
she finds another partner or like is meeting other

1:03:26.960,1:03:34.240
needs elsewhere like I'm trust that she'll 
come home. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Honestly,

1:03:34.240,1:03:41.520
like you know, I am not like Polly myself, 
but I think I work a lot for whatever reason.

1:03:41.520,1:03:46.400
I work with a lot of Polly clients and couples 
sometimes. Um, and something that I just really

1:03:46.400,1:03:53.360
love in general is love is not a finite resource, 
right? Like you don't just run out of love.

1:03:53.360,1:03:58.720
like there's so much love that you can give to so 
many people and just because you're giving love to

1:03:58.720,1:04:05.440
a lot of people doesn't mean that there's any less 
love to give anybody else and I don't know that's

1:04:05.440,1:04:11.040
just what came to my mind when you were saying 
that that like I know that she loves me regardless

1:04:11.040,1:04:18.480
of who else in her life she loves. Yeah. And that 
sounds like it took time to develop for you guys.

1:04:18.480,1:04:27.680
Yeah. For me, it I've always kind of felt like 
weird about a lot of relationship just because

1:04:27.680,1:04:35.520
uh I don't feel I don't think I feel jealousy in 
the same way other people do at least from what I

1:04:35.520,1:04:45.600
see because it's not something that comes to mind 
that fast. And because I have that blockage, it's

1:04:45.600,1:04:52.320
also become like at times something that causes 
trouble because I won't immediately clock that

1:04:52.320,1:04:58.320
someone is feeling jealous and I won't understand 
like, oh, what's going on? Why are they acting in

1:04:58.320,1:05:04.240
a certain way? And then I find out later, oh, it's 
because they were jealous. I'm like, oh [ __ ] So,

1:05:04.240,1:05:10.560
was it a lot of trial and error for you to like 
like figure out what? For a very long time, I just

1:05:10.560,1:05:21.440
didn't understand what jealousy was. My thing is 
like I'm pretty introverted. Uh I may not act like

1:05:21.440,1:05:25.920
it certain times, but that's also because I've 
learned how to mask and the whole fake it till

1:05:25.920,1:05:32.480
you make it whatever thing for work and whatever 
else uh out of necessity. But I am innately very

1:05:32.480,1:05:40.880
introverted. And so I will be like, I need time 
for myself. And I've only ever had partners in

1:05:40.880,1:05:44.960
the past where they'll be like, I want to spend 
every day with you. Why aren't you replying to

1:05:44.960,1:05:53.600
my text? Why aren't you doing no? And I'm like, 
calm down. Right. You should reply more, though.

1:05:53.600,1:06:02.480
It's like, yes. And and so I've only ever dealt 
with like jealousy on the receiving end where like

1:06:02.480,1:06:10.320
uh people will get jealous when I don't want 
to spend that much time with them. Uh and

1:06:10.320,1:06:15.360
for me it's always been like a sense of relief 
when they are spending time with other people

1:06:15.360,1:06:20.640
because I'm like oh you're takes it takes less 
it takes some of the pressure off pressure. And

1:06:20.640,1:06:25.840
so that's part of the reason why like I've 
never experienced jealousy in the same way.

1:06:25.840,1:06:34.960
Um and why I've had a lot of problem with like 
mono relationships. Um I just like being alone

1:06:34.960,1:06:40.960
way more compared to most other people. Yeah. So 
did that take you a while to get used to, Alex,

1:06:40.960,1:06:50.320
or not? It was something we like communicated. 
So something we talked about when we had those

1:06:50.320,1:06:57.120
meetings was how much time should we spend 
together. So it started with like maybe

1:06:57.120,1:07:03.280
minimum once a week and then maybe if you have 
more time we can do hangouts. And it gradually

1:07:03.280,1:07:09.520
evolved into more of a a dynamic thing. If 
she needed time alone, she would just say,

1:07:09.520,1:07:15.360
"Hey, I need to be alone for a bit." And 
be like, "Okay." And as long as we hadn't

1:07:15.360,1:07:22.000
planned anything beforehand, it was uh we worked 
around each other's like schedules. Mhm. Yeah. So,

1:07:22.000,1:07:27.200
you never took it in the way that Charlie's 
like former partners took it. Yeah. No.

1:07:27.200,1:07:35.200
Uh her former partners make me look good. 
Shut up. But yeah, kind of true. Yeah. Um,

1:07:35.200,1:07:42.240
I mean like there I I understand it from their 
perspectives too because we live in a kind of

1:07:42.240,1:07:47.920
there's a lot of portrayal in media where it's 
just like it's expected that partners just spend

1:07:47.920,1:07:52.800
all their times together. If you're not spending 
all your time together that means they're cheating

1:07:52.800,1:07:56.000
or that means they're doing something else or that 
means you don't like each other enough. That means

1:07:56.000,1:08:03.200
you don't love each other enough. But it's like 
no I have we both have our own lives and it you

1:08:03.200,1:08:10.160
should have that trust that like if I am you 
know hyperfixated on my hobby in my room that

1:08:10.160,1:08:16.080
doesn't mean I love you any less right but like 
yeah Alex was basically the first partner I had

1:08:16.080,1:08:24.000
I've had that like I develop this trust that I 
don't have to tiptoe around him and be like okay

1:08:24.000,1:08:31.600
uh I don't have to like justify yourself justify 
myself. I don't have to preemptively sugar coat

1:08:31.600,1:08:34.960
anything. Yeah. There's like confrontation and 
then there's like what you guys have where you

1:08:34.960,1:08:41.040
just like talk. That's like that, you know, just 
talking and like communicating things like then

1:08:41.040,1:08:44.560
you just add defensiveness and like tiptoeing 
and then that becomes a confrontation, but it

1:08:44.560,1:08:50.320
just sounds like it never gets there, right? 
Mhm. And I remember you guys mentioning Well,

1:08:50.320,1:08:56.160
how do you identify your relationship? Are you 
I don't want to say the wrong thing like mono

1:08:56.160,1:09:00.400
with each other or we're we're solo poly. Solo 
poly. That's what you guys said. I'm like mono

1:09:00.400,1:09:08.000
is not the right word. I don't think uh mono is 
monogamy. Um solo poly uh is like well I've been

1:09:08.000,1:09:17.680
talking a lot. Do you want to explain it? You said 
I was wrong. What I thought wrong solo poly was is

1:09:17.680,1:09:24.800
you and your partner can date separately. Mhm. 
Apparently, Charlie looked it up, what it means

1:09:24.800,1:09:32.400
is you and your partner don't live together. So, 
from what my understanding is more like, sure,

1:09:32.400,1:09:41.680
you date separately and independently with the 
idea that your lives are more your own. You're

1:09:41.680,1:09:48.000
more separated. From what I've seen, people will 
define it as like you have your own space. You

1:09:48.000,1:09:54.800
don't necessar you don't live together. You're not 
nested partners. Nested partners live together.

1:09:54.800,1:10:02.400
Yeah. It's more separated. Okay. Um whereas like 
people who don't identify as solo poly, they might

1:10:02.400,1:10:09.840
be like, "Oh, we have a polycule where a polycule 
is sounds like a molecule, right?" Yeah. Well,

1:10:09.840,1:10:17.280
we have like partners that are partners with 
our partners or whatever. it's like more imshed

1:10:17.280,1:10:23.360
or sometimes they'll have like nested partners. 
Sometimes like people will be like, "Oh, I have a

1:10:23.360,1:10:31.360
primary partner." Uh, a lot of people will dislike 
saying that because the hierarchy has like gets a

1:10:31.360,1:10:38.080
bad rep. But I feel like it's it's kind of natural 
to be like, "Oh, I have I have a person who is

1:10:38.080,1:10:44.560
like closer to me compared to other people." And 
sometimes that might change like in different

1:10:44.560,1:10:49.920
times of your lives where like one partner's 
closer then other partner is not as close or

1:10:49.920,1:10:54.880
it switches whatever. Sometimes you have like I 
don't know three partners two of them are closer

1:10:54.880,1:11:00.720
one is a little bit farther away whatever you know 
I don't think it's necessarily like anything wrong

1:11:00.720,1:11:08.880
to be like I am aware that one partner is closer 
to me compared to another. So you guys identify

1:11:08.880,1:11:14.080
your relationship as solo poly. Mhm. Are you 
currently do you either of you have any other

1:11:14.080,1:11:23.600
partners? Not right now. Um for me I like I just 
got out of another relationship and right now I

1:11:23.600,1:11:33.440
have what's called a comet. What is a comet? So 
a comet is basically comet. It comes around once

1:11:33.440,1:11:46.000
in a while. It's not necessarily like um like 
a fullon relationship. It's not as like serious

1:11:46.000,1:11:52.320
and blah blah. It's more of like when we have 
time, we we like to see each other, but there's

1:11:52.320,1:11:58.320
no hard feelings if like we're both too busy 
or something like that. Thank you for defining

1:11:58.320,1:12:05.760
solo poly for me and for everyone listening. 
Again, this is all these like definitions are

1:12:05.760,1:12:14.800
like the only definition. None other definitions 
matter. This is the universal truth. Shut up.

1:12:14.800,1:12:21.280
Language is a living thing. It's a living 
developing thing. It's It changes all the time

1:12:21.280,1:12:27.680
every day. All right. Okay. So, unfortunately, 
I think we're running a little bit long. Um,

1:12:27.680,1:12:31.760
but I do want to ask you guys just like 
more light-hearted, less, you know,

1:12:31.760,1:12:38.400
serious questions. I guess aside from like 
dancing and like strip clubs apparently. Like

1:12:38.400,1:12:43.920
what is something that you guys bond over? Anime, 
food. I mean, dance is the big one. Dance is the

1:12:43.920,1:12:53.920
big one. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I keep telling Charlie 
like I groomed her to be my perfect dance partner

1:12:53.920,1:13:00.320
and I'm just like, stop saying that. People 
get the wrong idea. I'm older than you. I mean,

1:13:00.320,1:13:06.640
it's kind of true though. Like he he basically 
cuz you teach dancing, right? Yeah. He teaches and

1:13:06.640,1:13:13.440
DJs. Yeah. Yeah. He's teaching and DJing tomorrow. 
Really? Yeah. Oh my god. Um but Okay. What's a

1:13:13.440,1:13:18.800
Maybe what's a favorite memory you guys have or 
something that you just really enjoy that you do

1:13:18.800,1:13:27.520
together? For my birthday, Charlie surprised me. 
She had said her housemates uh needed help moving

1:13:27.520,1:13:33.680
and I showed up to her place. Unbeknownst to me, 
she had invited a bunch of my friends to come over

1:13:33.680,1:13:39.840
and play an impromptu tabletop session and I was 
completely surprised and it was amazing. Oh my

1:13:39.840,1:13:45.760
god. Is it really easy to surprise him? I feel 
like it would be. Yeah. On occasion. Yeah. But

1:13:45.760,1:13:50.400
you are so sweet, Charlie. Like you have like it 
sounds like you have such amazing ability to like

1:13:50.400,1:13:56.000
make people feel special. Oh, thank you. That's 
a really special thing. I mean, like to me there

1:13:56.000,1:14:04.160
it's it's very easy to like surprise him because I 
will Is he so oblivious? It's he is so oblivious,

1:14:04.160,1:14:12.080
but also like he's his interests are like 
really easy for me to prepare and think of

1:14:12.080,1:14:20.480
ideas. We have a lot in common. And what helps is 
I'm way nerdier than him apparently. Really? Yes.

1:14:21.280,1:14:27.280
pretty nerdy. Yeah. He said that like, "Okay, 
so we hung out with his friends and I was like,

1:14:27.280,1:14:31.760
okay, this is pretty fun." We hung out with my 
friends afterwards. He was like, "Your friends

1:14:31.760,1:14:40.080
are such nerds." I'm like, "Shut up." Wow. But I 
mean, it's true. Yes. So, if you couldn't tell,

1:14:40.080,1:14:44.960
her love language is gift giving. Oh, yeah. 
Yeah. My love language is gift giving and acts

1:14:44.960,1:14:51.120
of service. Uh, I can see that. Unfortunately for 
me, he doesn't let me do acts of service as much.

1:14:51.120,1:14:56.160
I I automatically think like I want to clean 
let me let me clean up for you. Let me do this

1:14:56.160,1:15:03.520
for you. He's like don't like why is it cuz your 
is your love language acts of service too? No,

1:15:03.520,1:15:09.040
it's because I like it reinforces that I need to 
do my own chores and I'm like I'm not going to let

1:15:09.040,1:15:14.400
someone else do my chores for me. For sure. For 
sure. No, I get it. I understand. But I still was

1:15:14.400,1:15:18.560
just like let me clean your house for you. Wait, 
what is your love language room first? I don't

1:15:18.560,1:15:23.440
want to clean my room. I want to clean your room. 
I don't care about my own stuff. I want to help

1:15:23.440,1:15:30.320
everyone else organize their lives while my life 
is still a chaotic mess. It's that ADHD urge to do

1:15:30.320,1:15:38.720
everything else ex like especially other people's 
chores than to do my own. Yes. What is your love

1:15:38.720,1:15:44.240
language though? Quality time. Okay, that makes 
sense. which which is nice that like yours is

1:15:44.240,1:15:51.360
quality time but like you're still not possessive 
of her time. I like emphasize on quality. So I

1:15:51.360,1:15:58.800
this time we do spend together I want to like 
make sure even if it's not a lot make it like

1:15:58.800,1:16:04.800
worthwhile. A I love that. And it sounds like you 
you do. Mhm. Oh yeah. Charlie, what's yours? Was

1:16:04.800,1:16:08.960
your favorite memory? Really? I mean like we've 
talked about a lot of them already. The whole

1:16:08.960,1:16:15.520
strip club thing, the whole like dance thing. our 
first time basically meeting each other. All those

1:16:15.520,1:16:22.240
things, they're all kind of my favorite memories. 
It's all part of like how I fell in love with him.

1:16:22.240,1:16:28.800
Oh my god, that was such a great answer. It was 
a very safy answer. No, I love that. You guys are

1:16:28.800,1:16:34.240
so funny. This was so fun. Thank you so much for 
being so open. Thank you. This wasn't as nearly as

1:16:34.240,1:16:37.360
bad as I thought it was going to be. You guys are 
like, you're going to I'm going to get you banned

1:16:37.360,1:16:44.960
from Spotify. No. Oh, well, like I purposely toned 
down some detail. I'm sure. What What did we not

1:16:44.960,1:16:53.520
talk about? I can already think of several. 
Thankfully, that's all the time we have. Well,

1:16:53.520,1:16:59.360
okay. So, I'm going to close up. If you guys 
ever want to learn more about Alex and Charlie,

1:16:59.360,1:17:05.440
just visit Firehouse 5 in Sacramento. Yeah. And 
Alex can teach you how to dance and share a bunch

1:17:05.440,1:17:09.440
of music with you. He's a very good teacher. 
The only thing I know about blues is because of

1:17:09.440,1:17:16.480
you. Fusion. Sorry. I don't know why. Sometimes 
people will just like say blues fusion because

1:17:16.480,1:17:21.840
it came from blues. It's fine. Okay. So, it's 
not I didn't just like make that up. No. Okay,

1:17:21.840,1:17:26.160
cool. Okay. I'm like there's has to be a reason 
I keep saying that. But anyways, thank you for

1:17:26.160,1:17:30.480
listening and watching. If you liked this episode, 
please follow and subscribe. And we have new

1:17:30.480,1:17:37.280
episodes every single Tuesday. Yeah. Thank you 
guys so much. Thank you. That's a wrap. Yeah.