Episode 4: Stomach viruses, iconic double proposals, and recalibrating through life together
Welcome to the fourth episode of Ordinary Love—a podcast where I sit down with couples and celebrate their love story! Join me as I hear about the big, small, beautiful, sometimes messy, and always special ordinary moments that make relationships incredibly extraordinary.
In this episode of Ordinary Love, I get to talk to Devin (she/her) and Mia (she/her), who are my LOVELY sisters. They are a queer pair of newlyweds, who currently live with their three cats in the Silicon Valley.
Join us as they share with us:
♡ Instantly falling for each other
♡ Moving from San Diego to Portland to Hawaii to the Bay Area
♡ Focusing on HOW they argue vs. not arguing at all
♡ Starting new chapters and recalibrating needs and expectations of each other
♡ Surviving Devin’s PA school
♡ Proposing to each other and things not going to plan
♡ Navigating threats to same sex marriage in 2025
♡ Celebrating the simple things in life together
♡ Intentionally prioritizing rest and health together
...And more!
Scroll down for episode transcript ♡
Want to be on the podcast? Reach out today!
Episode Transcript
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[Music]
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Well, welcome back to Ordinary Love, a podcast
where we sit down with couples and talk about
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their relationship. Today I am joined by my two
sisters. Yay. I was going to say stepsisters,
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but sisters is easier. Sisters is easier. Um, and
they are newlyweds. They just got married in July.
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Um, and so can we start with just having
you guys introduce yourselves? Um,
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and then we can just go from there. Well,
I'm so happy to be on the podcast. Um,
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and I think it's awesome what you are doing
because we need to talk more about real love,
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not just the romanticized Yeah. version of it.
But my name is Mia. I use she her pronouns. Um,
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I am Ena's sister. I'm just calling sister
you my sister. And um so I'm an Aries.
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Very important information. Very important.
Aries, Sagittarius rising, cancer moon. Um
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you're a Cancer moon. I am. That makes sense.
That's why I like to be here so much. She's
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got so many feelings. I have a lot of feelings and
they all happen on this couch right here at home.
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um at one of us. I would say I would say I
have many like jobs and hobbies that sort
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of intertwine, but my core day job is I work
at Mixie Communications, which is a social
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justice PR and digital marketing agency. Um and
I love my work. I've been there for 10 years and
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it's deeply fulfilling. Outside of that, I just
recently wrote a book called Yes. As We did. Oh,
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we should have it. Where is it? It's in the box
in the office. Tell us tell us about your book,
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Mia. Um, so my book is uh it was a 7-year labor
of love. Um Oh, I love that. I lived in San
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Diego at the time that I started writing it. Well,
actually at the time when the journey took place,
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but everything had kind of fallen apart in my
life is how I describe it. And this was actually
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before I met Devon. Um, so like I got out of
a really heartbreaking relationship. I took
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some time away from Mixie. I just felt very like
untethered and floating in space. I decided to go
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on a road trip around the country and interview
women and gender non-conforming people who were
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living really untraditional lives because my life
at the time was like a very scary blank slate.
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Yeah. Like just it felt really empty. And I kind
of had this moment of like who am I and what do
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I want at a point where I could do kind of go in
any direction. Like when the world is your oyster,
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it's a little overwhelming. It is overwhelming.
It's nice to have all that choice. But when you
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have all the choices in the world, it's a
lot. You sort of are like, where do I take
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a next step? Like what path do I follow? I was
familiar with like the traditional paths that
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most women in their 30s could take. And I was
also very interested in what else is out there,
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what other options are there. Um, so I went
on this road trip around the country for four
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months and I interviewed 20 women and gender
non-conforming people who I thought were just
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living really unconventional, untraditional
lives, either their careers or what they were
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doing in their community. I interviewed people all
around the country, super diverse in like every
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way. Mhm. I interviewed a woman, just to give you
like a sampling, uh, a woman in her 60s who had
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multiple sclerosis, but would go to the skate park
in her wheelchair and ride around. I interviewed a
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formerly incarcerated woman who got out of prison
and started a catering company that hires formerly
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incarcerated women. I interviewed artists,
entrepreneurs in all queer and feminist auto
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mechanic shop, just like the coolest people who
are not famous, but are just in our own backyards
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doing really inspiring things. So, this book, this
is what it looks like. Beautiful cover. Thank you.
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My friend Karina White did it. And yeah, it is.
It came out in June. Actually, it's relevant, too,
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because it includes How I Met Devon in here. Yeah.
So, we met on this road trip. So there's it's also
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partially a love story. I am so excited. I am like
halfway through so far. It's beautiful. Thank you.
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And honestly, you know, there was a lot of things
that inspired this podcast, but I think what you
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were doing with this book as well. I think just
the showcasing of ordinary people that are doing
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really extraordinary things. You know, there is a
lot of power I think in just each other's stories.
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So I think it's awesome what you're doing. We
are just doing awesome things. Yeah, we love
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each other. Okay, your turn. My name is Devon.
Oh, sorry, I forgot. I got Devon and then she
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said like a lot of things. So, like what pronouns,
what you do, and anything else you want to say.
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Got it. So, I am Devon. I use she her pronouns.
For work, I'm a physician assistant. I work in
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liver transplant. Um, liver transplant. Yep.
So, like my dad said at our wedding, drink up.
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We got you covered. He said job security. He said
job security. Yeah, that's right. Really? I This
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is the first time in my life that I'm not like
in school and working at the same time and like
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grinding. So, it's I'm doing a lot of rest right
now. I'm trying to live that European lifestyle.
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I'm I am ve vegetables. Happily happy grind and
also trying to Yeah. I'm just trying to rest
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and um work and not have to like be moving at 100
miles an hour. So, it's been nice for sure. That's
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all I ever really remembered of you, Devon. At
least like post high school that you were always
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busy doing a lot. Yeah. Yeah. This is literally
the most I've seen Devon in our whole lives. I
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think so. I think so. I think outside of like
the holidays and like a dinner here and there,
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like I was not available to like come do stuff.
Yeah. During that time period, I also was not
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in a great relationship who didn't was didn't
really want me to do anything with my family. So,
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obviously, I did not marry that person. So, you're
where you need to be right now. And that is back
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here with us. So, well, thank you for introducing
yourselves. And usually where we start is just
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kind of, you know, telling us a little bit about
your story. I know it's a long one. Read the book.
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Read the book. Yeah, that's it. That's it. There's
no episode. Anyway, episode chapter 17. Yeah.
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Well, do you mind if I start? Because you wrote it
all down, so it's all very distilled and so I know
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your version. Go for it. Okay. Yes. Let's give
Devon Yeah. Let's give Devon the mic. Yeah. Yeah.
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It's the same version as in the book. They're not
like we didn't have fully different experiences.
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We had some mutual friends and Mia wasn't privy to
this and that's why I wanted to tell this part of
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the story. We had some mutual friends who were
dating um and they had wanted to set us up to
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go on a trip to Mexico and they were long-distance
relationships. So, I lived in Portland at the time
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with my friend and her boyfriend at the time lived
in San Diego, which is where Mia lived. And I was
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like, that doesn't like I'm not really interested
in the long-distance relationship that you guys
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are doing, especially not with some woman who's
never met me and I've never talked to crazy. They
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wanted to do a double date, vacation, vacation,
blind date. Double blind date vacation to Mexico.
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Yes. Okay. That Mia had no knowledge of. And
I explained to her how they tried to set us up
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later on in our lives. And she was like, "That's
nuts." And I'm like, "I'm glad I'm glad we're on
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the same page about that." Wait, what did you What
were you told? Nothing. I didn't know any of that.
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You didn't know that she was coming? No. No. I
didn't know any of this conversation or planning
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was happening. Yes. They were just scheming
behind the scenes. And I was like, maybe let's
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pop the brakes. And shockingly, that relationship
between those two people did not work out. Oh. So,
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so my friend was pretty heartbroken about it. He
had ghosted her and he's like, "He will not talk
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to me." What do you mean he ghosted her? They were
going to go on a trip together. I know. He Wait,
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they broke up before the trip? Yes. Yeah, they
broke up before the trip. I had taken the time
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off. Um, stop. Um, and I was like, "Well, I have
11 days off." I had 11 days off and I'm like,
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"Well, I'm going to do something with this." Which
comes into play later, but we're having wine and
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my friend's like, "Will you just reach out to
Mia over Instagram cuz I know she's going to be
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in Portland soon and try and find out why he broke
up with me." And I'm like, "Sure, I'll reach out
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to this woman who I don't know who to like give
me tea." Yeah, exactly. And so I just I asked her
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I was like, "Hey, I heard you're going to come to
Portland. Do you want to get a drink?" And then I
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woke up in the morning deep with guilt because I'm
like, I'm not asking this woman out for a drink to
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get information about another person. Like that's
their [ __ ] But then she responded. She was like,
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yeah, sure. I'd love to. And I'm like, okay. And
we went and had coffee. And about 5 minutes into
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that coffee, that was just me meeting this woman
who is very interesting. I was like, I don't know
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what I was thinking, but this should be a date. I
want this to be a date. How do I make this a date?
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at that and at the time I was I was single
and I was like I was like dating but I was
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not interested in a relationship. I was just like,
you know, I was out there and I was just trying to
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like live my life and grow as a human being, but
I was like, I I don't know how I can spend more
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time with this woman, but I need to figure out
how to do that. And I hate It's very confusing
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cuz she lives in her van, but she she but she
showed me her house, which has wheels on it,
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and but she seems to have more drive than any
other person I've ever met in my whole life,
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which is very more drive. But I'm going to This
all happened like within 5 minutes of meeting her.
0:10:17.120,0:10:23.680
Yes. Wow. Yes. And it how all was happening in my
head. So that kind of explains the like panicked
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look I feel like I got from maybe the beginning
of the date. Just like I was like so enamored by
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her. I was like I have never felt this way before.
And you do have that effect, Mia. I She does. She
0:10:34.720,0:10:41.520
really does. Like I watch it happen to people and
I'm like I know, dude. I know. I know. So, we had
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that date and I was or it wasn't a date and I was
like, I don't know how to make this. She did give
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me her coffee card. You know, when you've like
punched the 10 coffees and then you get the free
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one. She let me have the free one. And I think
that was like I thought that was a huge gesture.
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It It was I was like, "You're coming on really
strong." Yeah. Give me this slow down a little
0:11:00.960,0:11:09.040
bit. Slow it down. It It was cuz I had I had $100
a week in fun money. Very budgeted. I was like,
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"You needed that big cup of coffee." But I was
like, I was like, "This cup of coffee is for you."
0:11:15.840,0:11:21.840
But she lived in her car, so So who really needed
it more, right? So So she really understood the
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importance of that coffee guard. Wow. That's the
backstory, right? What I got from I woke up one
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day to a text from my friend's friend and I was on
a road trip and she was like, "Hey, I think you'll
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be in Portland soon. We should get a drink." So
to me, I was like, "This is so great. This is so
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nice." like I would love to. And then we started
talking more over Instagram. I saw her videos of
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her in Tofino learning how to surf and like she's
also an amazing cook. So I saw all the camp meals
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she was making. I was living in my van not cooking
nice meals. So I was very intrigued by what she
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was doing and she was working on a book which I
was not yet working on my book. So we just kind
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of had like a lot to talk about very naturally off
the bat. And then yeah, by the time we met, we had
0:12:06.720,0:12:11.600
really effortless, easy conversations. Oh, okay.
So, you guys had like conversed over Instagram for
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a while. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because at first it was
just, "Hey, let's meet up when you're in town."
0:12:15.760,0:12:19.840
And I was like, "Yay." I didn't know anyone in
Portland. So, I was like, "No, I'll have someone
0:12:19.840,0:12:25.840
like at least someone to meet and talk to." Yeah.
But then maybe two weeks passed in between when
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she first reached out and when I made it up there
cuz my van did in fact break down. I was delayed.
0:12:31.120,0:12:35.760
Um, and in those two weeks, we were just like
watching each other's posts on Instagram and
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sort of very naturally talking. So, by the time
we met, it didn't feel too much like a stranger,
0:12:42.480,0:12:46.400
right? But that was it was still the first
time that you guys had met had met in person
0:12:46.400,0:12:52.080
in person. Yeah. Yeah. It was at a coffee shop in
North Portland called the Great North. Great. So,
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that that wasn't your first date then. I like to
think of it now as our first date, but it wasn't
0:12:57.520,0:13:02.080
an intentional first date. Okay. And I we didn't
talk about feelings. Nothing happened on that
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first date that I mean she showed me her car,
her house. I gave you a piece of art. She gave
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me a piece of art by Niara Wahed. Wow. We have it
framed in our room. Yeah. So sweet. And I remember
0:13:15.360,0:13:23.760
I called my mom. I was I literally went to go
to um Fred Meyer, which is like the Walmart/way
0:13:23.760,0:13:29.760
Safeway kind of place. It's like a Oregon thing
to get a frame for the art because I was like this
0:13:29.760,0:13:34.080
needs to be framed immediately. And I called
my mom. I didn't know that. I called my mom
0:13:34.080,0:13:40.960
who you've met her. You know how she is. And I was
like, I just met this woman. She's an adult. She's
0:13:40.960,0:13:47.360
She has her [ __ ] together. She lives in her car.
These two things don't feel like they necessarily
0:13:47.360,0:13:52.320
go together. And I'm like I I like I want to go
on a I think I want to go on a date with her. like
0:13:52.320,0:13:57.360
I've never I've never felt like this before after
I met someone and my mom said you're being really
0:13:57.360,0:14:04.080
intense right now and then hung up the phone and I
was like she's like this energy I just don't have
0:14:04.080,0:14:08.800
the capacity for it right now. Yeah. She's like
I'm being really intense right now and then said
0:14:08.800,0:14:16.720
call me later and then hung up the phone and I
was like so funny. I love the you're being really
0:14:16.720,0:14:22.480
intense right now. Sorry, back up for one second.
We met, had this coffee, and then I continued on
0:14:22.480,0:14:28.560
my road trip. So Devon stayed in Portland and I
went up to Seattle and kept doing my thing. But
0:14:28.560,0:14:35.360
one of the things I remember from these early days
was that Devon was so visibly like from what you
0:14:35.360,0:14:41.760
told me just really in love or like I feel like
you just knew so fast. And I did too, but I was
0:14:41.760,0:14:46.240
alone in my van. Devon actually went to work.
And I feel like didn't people in the hospital
0:14:46.240,0:14:52.080
like all know about me? Because then when they
met me, they were like, "You, you're the one that
0:14:52.080,0:14:58.080
Devon's talking about." Oh my god. I talked about
Mia non-stop. It's like a thing in the hospital.
0:14:58.080,0:15:04.800
Like the surgeons knew, the nurses knew. That's so
cute. Yeah. So, like, fast forward 2 days later,
0:15:04.800,0:15:10.000
like we were still texting. Whether she was giving
me signals or not, I did not care. I was like,
0:15:10.000,0:15:14.640
she probably was. It felt You were 100%. We
had been texting back and forth and she was
0:15:14.640,0:15:20.880
basically like, "I'm really glad I met you."
And I'm like, I'm really glad I met you, too.
0:15:20.880,0:15:26.720
Um, and she before she left, she invited me to
come on her trip, which I wasn't sure was like
0:15:26.720,0:15:30.720
hot smoke or whatever, but I didn't know
if it was like a Yeah, if you're you Yeah,
0:15:30.720,0:15:35.520
come visit me on the trip. I'm like, we just met
each other. But, um, I was already in love with
0:15:35.520,0:15:40.960
you at that point. No, I'm just joking. I wasn't
in love with you for like two more weeks. Um I
0:15:40.960,0:15:49.600
like 2 days after she left I was like hey so were
you serious about me coming to visit you and she
0:15:49.600,0:15:55.280
was like yeah and I was like I have 5 days off
in 5 weeks just the way my schedule works. Can I
0:15:55.280,0:15:59.280
come visit you? Do you know where you're going to
be? And oh like wherever you are. Yeah. And yeah
0:15:59.280,0:16:05.360
I'll visit you wherever you are. She actually
said I'll visit you anywhere in North America.
0:16:06.160,0:16:12.560
in Canada. That's really in She was being very
intense. I said, "I'll I'll meet you anywhere in
0:16:12.560,0:16:17.760
the country or Canada or Mexico." Then she was
like, "Cool. I have feelings about that." And
0:16:17.760,0:16:23.040
yeah, let's do that. I'm like, "Cool. I have
feelings for you, too." I basically was like,
0:16:23.040,0:16:28.000
"I'm not [ __ ] around. Like, I'm into you."
It was like Pat, you know how sometimes when
0:16:28.000,0:16:33.280
you're in a new relationship, you like try and
play it really cool? For sure. I feel like we
0:16:33.280,0:16:38.480
didn't didn't I don't really know exactly why,
but I think we both were just like there was
0:16:38.480,0:16:43.200
nothing to lose. We didn't work together. We
didn't even live in the same state. Didn't
0:16:43.200,0:16:47.760
have the same friends. Yeah. And and I was like,
I'm going to go with these feelings because the
0:16:47.760,0:16:51.840
worst case scenario is she doesn't like me back.
And then you just never see her again. And then I
0:16:51.840,0:16:59.040
never see her again. And both her and her friend
will now be mortal enemies of me and my friend.
0:16:59.840,0:17:05.440
Um, but that is not the case because then Mia's
like, "Absolutely, you should come visit me."
0:17:05.440,0:17:11.280
Wait. Okay. So, Mia, yeah, we know that Devon was
like completely enamored by you after the first
0:17:11.280,0:17:19.600
non-date coffee date. What did you walk away from
that feeling? I I feel like my emotions were got
0:17:19.600,0:17:25.760
to be the same place that Devon's were, but maybe
took like a few more days. They like evolved into
0:17:25.760,0:17:33.680
that. Mhm. At first I was like, "Wow, I was so
happy I got to meet her. She was so interesting
0:17:33.680,0:17:39.920
and cool and fun and I was just very like seeing
it as like what a cool person I got to know."
0:17:39.920,0:17:45.200
And then after our coffee date, I had a drive to
Washington, a 6-hour drive, and I was picking up
0:17:45.200,0:17:50.080
my friends immediately. Immediately, I literally
left the coffee date and was like, I need to drive
0:17:50.080,0:17:54.720
to Bellingham right now cuz my friends are flying
into the airport and I need to pick them up.
0:17:54.720,0:18:00.480
So, I had this like six-hour drive to kind of
just like let it all process in the background.
0:18:00.480,0:18:05.600
And I feel like the processing went from like,
"Wow, what a neat person to like, I hope I hang
0:18:05.600,0:18:09.920
out with her again sometime," or like, "I'd like
to stay in touch." But sort of more into like,
0:18:09.920,0:18:15.440
"Wow, that was actually really special." Or maybe
that was more than just a cool person that I met,
0:18:15.440,0:18:22.000
right? I had mostly dated guys my whole life
except for before I left San Diego. I had had like
0:18:22.000,0:18:29.680
a very intense really like really high highs and
really low lows relationship with now a trans man,
0:18:29.680,0:18:35.520
but at the time they identified as a woman. Um,
so anyway, it was sort of just my first experience
0:18:35.520,0:18:43.280
outside of a heterosexual relationship. So I
felt like that had sort of opened my perception
0:18:43.280,0:18:47.280
a little bit. So then when I met Devon, my first
thought was amazing person, but then it quickly
0:18:47.280,0:18:52.480
evolved into like, oh, romantic. Oh, that could be
something really special. But the other thing was,
0:18:52.480,0:18:57.280
and you said this just a minute ago, Devon said
we she had gotten out of a relationship and was
0:18:57.280,0:19:01.520
really focused on herself. I was also really
focused on myself. I had gotten out of like
0:19:01.520,0:19:07.360
a very heartbreaking relationship and my whole
that was maybe like 3 months before this meeting
0:19:07.360,0:19:14.560
Devon. So I was not at all in the headsp space of
let me see if I like let me have a fun romantic
0:19:14.560,0:19:19.040
rendevous with people on a road trip. I was like
put me alone in my car for 4 months cuz I need
0:19:19.040,0:19:27.280
to like seriously process some things. So when
we met for both of us I think the idea of a new
0:19:27.280,0:19:34.880
romantic partner was really far away from anything
we were thinking about. But then we both got there
0:19:34.880,0:19:38.880
which is really neat. It's like it's that whole
thing like when you're not looking for something,
0:19:38.880,0:19:43.360
you find it. I think that and too it's like I
think that the work that you guys were doing on
0:19:43.360,0:19:49.920
yourselves then like helped you become the people
that Yeah. You know, me my guard was fully down.
0:19:49.920,0:19:55.040
Like I was dating, but I was like pretty much
not interested in a relationship, but it was just
0:19:55.040,0:20:02.560
just dating to like flex my social muscles. Like
basically I when I met Mia, it was like I didn't
0:20:02.560,0:20:07.760
even think of it as a date. Like I was like, "Oh,
she's cute and we have like a lot in common, but
0:20:07.760,0:20:13.520
I just want to meet her because she seems like a
cool person and I'm just trying to expand my like
0:20:13.520,0:20:17.760
social community and it's cool what she's doing."
And then I met her and obviously that changed very
0:20:17.760,0:20:26.720
quickly. We were very much so focused on growing
internally rather than with another person,
0:20:26.720,0:20:32.880
right? I remember saying to Devon that I would
rather be alone than be with the wrong person.
0:20:32.880,0:20:37.440
like I would rather be alone than be with people
just to be with people cuz I actually think it's
0:20:37.440,0:20:43.200
way more lonely to be around people you don't
connect with. So that was my whole outlook on
0:20:43.200,0:20:47.280
relationships was like I will wait until
I find the person who feels like the right
0:20:47.280,0:20:52.960
person otherwise I will just hang by myself and
that's totally fine. Yeah. I don't think like we
0:20:52.960,0:20:59.200
thought okay I'm ready to take this big leap into
a new long-term relationship. I think we were very
0:20:59.200,0:21:03.760
much one playing it not very cool, but two just
putting it like one foot in front of the other,
0:21:03.760,0:21:09.600
right? Kind of just being like, I really like you.
What now? Right. Like where do we go? Right. What
0:21:09.600,0:21:13.360
is what happens now? Where are you going to
be? Just like exists and we can just like let
0:21:13.360,0:21:18.160
them lead the way. Like we don't have to figure
anything out right now. Especially since like you
0:21:18.160,0:21:22.160
were working at a hospital. Were you you weren't
in P school, right? I was still an ER tech. I was
0:21:22.160,0:21:28.240
still working full-time. Um, school full-time.
Yeah. Getting my prerequisites, volunteering.
0:21:28.240,0:21:34.880
Yeah, volunteering. Oh, wow. School full-time,
too. Yes. Oh my gosh, Deon. Yes. I was very My
0:21:34.880,0:21:43.120
calendar was my best friend. There was checkboxes.
The most high performing Virgo. And I think maybe
0:21:43.120,0:21:47.680
logistically, if we had overthought it, we could
have potentially reasoned oursel out of it.
0:21:48.960,0:21:57.520
I'm in school and working full time and have $100
per week or whatever. Like we could have easily
0:21:57.520,0:22:02.800
said there's no space for a relationship there.
But we didn't actually think about all of that.
0:22:02.800,0:22:08.240
I think we were just like, "You're great. Want to
hang out again?" Yeah. And it sort of evolved. I
0:22:08.240,0:22:13.520
was really letting my feelings drive me at that
point cuz I'm like, I've never felt like this
0:22:13.520,0:22:19.600
about another person. Two days after I was after
I was like, I'll meet you anywhere in the country.
0:22:19.600,0:22:27.760
Mia got deported. You have to There's so many
qualifiers. That is like not anything that I was
0:22:27.760,0:22:33.040
expecting. So, in today's America, we have to be
a little sensitive. Sorry, she got to put it from
0:22:33.040,0:22:40.320
Canada. Okay. Still, um, context. So, she didn't
So, I had to get a new van. My van broke down in
0:22:40.320,0:22:47.120
LA. I did not have license plates on it. And so I
tried to go into Canada with the like CarMax tags
0:22:47.120,0:22:52.960
on my car which they immediately flagged. And
then I was planning to spend a handful of days
0:22:52.960,0:22:57.200
in Canada in Vancouver interviewing people and I
couldn't. So then I was like, well, what do I want
0:22:57.200,0:23:01.520
to do with my time? I was like, maybe I'll go back
to Portland and hang out with that cool girl that
0:23:01.520,0:23:06.560
I met. Um, and so that was where I called Devon
said, hey, can I come stay with you for a few
0:23:06.560,0:23:13.840
days? And she said yes. And I had already told her
I had feelings for her. So this was like she was
0:23:13.840,0:23:19.360
already said, "I'll come meet you anywhere in the
country." Oh, okay. So, it was kind of in my mind,
0:23:19.360,0:23:24.240
it was now like, "Okay, there's like chemistry
here, like potentially something budding. So,
0:23:24.240,0:23:28.320
I want to spend a little time with this person.
Why not?" Um, so I spent three days with Devon,
0:23:28.320,0:23:33.680
of which she called out of work for all three.
And and they knew what I was doing because I
0:23:33.680,0:23:39.920
had talked I had talked about her constantly. And
then I talked to my charge nurse who very kindly
0:23:39.920,0:23:45.200
let me off work two hours early to meet Mia. They
were all rooting for you because we were going to
0:23:45.200,0:23:51.520
a play. Well, it was her time to be charge nurse
for 4 days in a row. And then I called in sick to
0:23:51.520,0:23:55.920
the following three days that I had working with
her and she came up to me the next time she saw
0:23:55.920,0:24:03.680
me and she's like, "You little [ __ ] I gave you
two hours. I gave you two hours." And she's like,
0:24:03.680,0:24:08.240
"It better have been worth it." And I'm like,
I think I'm going to marry her, so it's going
0:24:08.240,0:24:16.240
to be worth it. It was great. We went to We did a
handful of things. We went to a community play. We
0:24:16.240,0:24:21.600
It was in North Portland in the fall, so we like
walked around a lot outside. We berry picking.
0:24:21.600,0:24:27.120
Berry picking. Yeah. We like just did all the
quintessential like fall stuff in Portland,
0:24:27.120,0:24:33.440
and it's just really fun. I like remember it being
pretty fall, like leaves changing. Oh my god.
0:24:33.440,0:24:38.560
which you're not used to. No, I wasn't. No, not
living in San Diego. And I was on school break,
0:24:38.560,0:24:44.080
too. So, it was very like Yeah, we just had
these little vacation. Oh my god. Yeah. So,
0:24:44.080,0:24:49.680
you weren't working and you didn't have school.
Like, you guys were able to like actually went to
0:24:49.680,0:24:55.200
the movies. Yeah, that's right. We watched some
surf competitions. Yeah. Yeah. It was just like
0:24:55.200,0:25:02.160
very blissful 3 days and then I left and I was
like, I'm a little sad to leave. By that point,
0:25:02.160,0:25:06.640
I was like, "This is obviously a romantic
relationship." Yeah. Um, and then I continued
0:25:06.640,0:25:13.520
on my road trip and we just texted and talked on
the phone like every day. And then flash forward,
0:25:13.520,0:25:20.080
Devon did come meet me. I was in Utah. Yeah. Oh,
okay. Um, which was really random and funny, but
0:25:20.080,0:25:25.040
Devon came and met me. When was that? Salt Lake
City. It's the end of September. End of September.
0:25:25.040,0:25:30.160
Yeah. I met you in Salt Lake City. I flew in.
Devon flew in and brought with her stomach virus.
0:25:30.720,0:25:37.840
So Deon flew in. I got it from a patient. Yep.
So at 8:00 p.m. I'm like I got it from a patient.
0:25:37.840,0:25:47.680
I got off work at 7:30. By 8:00 p.m. I was not
okay. Not okay. And I like texted me. I was like,
0:25:47.680,0:25:54.640
I'm sick. And I didn't what I didn't want her to
feel like was I was bailing on her. Like I'm so
0:25:54.640,0:25:59.760
like worried about me. I was like I was like
worried. I'm like this isn't an excuse. And
0:25:59.760,0:26:06.480
I remember brushing my teeth in the airport
and hoping to God that I was okay. When she
0:26:06.480,0:26:12.640
said she was sick, I was thinking like not feeling
well. Like I have a cold. She was like diarrhea,
0:26:12.640,0:26:18.160
vomit, like disgusting sick. Like I wouldn't
leave the house like that, much less get on
0:26:18.160,0:26:23.200
an airplane. Yeah. So I pick her up and I was
really nervous actually to pick her up, but I
0:26:23.200,0:26:26.640
picked her up from the airport. She was like,
"I'm not feeling that great." I'm like, "Okay,
0:26:26.640,0:26:31.360
well, it's like 400 p.m. I'm like, "Let's get you
something to eat." Yeah. Like some coffee. Coffee.
0:26:31.360,0:26:36.960
We'll sort of just like we'll keep take it really
easy. Uh I remember we went to a coffee shop. She
0:26:36.960,0:26:42.400
like couldn't I couldn't get out of the car being
in Yeah. So I went in and got her stuff, came out,
0:26:42.400,0:26:48.880
fed her, and then I drove us to our campsite where
we were supposed to camp. By 5:00 p.m. she was
0:26:48.880,0:26:56.640
asleep and slept the whole night and the sun was
up. I was like so excited to have this person. And
0:26:56.640,0:27:08.640
Devon sleeps. She sleeps. Yeah. She was out and in
my bed in my van. Like I was like I still like. So
0:27:08.640,0:27:12.320
the next morning she wakes up. I guess you were
sleeping and not like throwing up though. That's
0:27:12.320,0:27:16.480
Yeah. Yeah. I was just I was just It was like
the day after like I'm like I have no fluids in
0:27:16.480,0:27:23.200
my body. And so then I woke up and I'm like I feel
great. She slept for 16 hours and then I was like,
0:27:23.200,0:27:28.720
"Well, what should I do?" I was just kind of like,
"La, I don't know what to do. I guess I'll try to
0:27:28.720,0:27:34.000
go to sleep, too." Yeah. So, we both woke up
and the next day she was feeling great. And it
0:27:34.000,0:27:38.720
was needed that sleep and so was Mia. And I was
feeling great, too. Oh, so you didn't get sick?
0:27:38.720,0:27:45.520
Not yet. Oh. And then I did. Yeah. And then I got
big time sick. We had a We had a full day of like
0:27:45.520,0:27:51.920
We went skinny dipping in one of the rivers. We
went to like hot springs which were too hot to
0:27:51.920,0:27:58.640
actually get in, so we just like were near them
and we skateboarded. It was really fun. We went
0:27:58.640,0:28:04.400
to a a drive-in movie. Mhm. Said I love you for
the first time. I told that's where I told Devon
0:28:04.400,0:28:10.880
I loved her and she said it back. Yeah, it was
cool. Oh my gosh. And then camped under the stars
0:28:10.880,0:28:16.160
in like it was like a new moon so it was like so
bright. All the stars were out. It was gorgeous.
0:28:16.160,0:28:21.680
Rural Utah. Rural Utah. thought it was gorgeous.
And then Mia starts to starts to get really sick.
0:28:21.680,0:28:26.960
Well, I was in the passenger seat and Devon was
driving cuz I was very happy to share the driving
0:28:26.960,0:28:32.000
load with someone else. Oh, yeah. So, she offered
to drive and I was like, I accept. Devon wasn't
0:28:32.000,0:28:37.120
driving because you were feeling sick. You just
like let her drive. I was just like, "Thank you. I
0:28:37.120,0:28:42.720
need someone else to drive for a little bit, like
just to be a passenger." And I remember being like
0:28:42.720,0:28:46.720
suddenly feeling like, you know, when you're about
to throw up and everything like starts to tingle,
0:28:46.720,0:28:52.240
you start to get cold. Yeah. And I got cold and
sweaty and you like salivate. Uhhuh. And all my
0:28:52.240,0:28:56.560
fingers and my toes started to tingle and I was
like, "What's happening to me?" And then I was
0:28:56.560,0:29:02.320
like I looked over at you and I was like I looked
pale. You said you looked pale and I was like,
0:29:02.320,0:29:08.960
"Are you feeling cold?" I like asked all those
questions and I said, "We need to pull over."
0:29:08.960,0:29:12.240
Yeah. you were like, "We need to pull over." And
so we were going to the You were like, "I need to
0:29:12.240,0:29:18.480
go to the bathroom." And I was like, "Okay." And
so there was a Target and you were like, "I I am
0:29:18.480,0:29:23.600
like struggling." I'm like, "Just get out, go to
the bathroom." So funny because we like Deon like
0:29:23.600,0:29:29.120
skirted up to the front door of this Target. I
like left out of the van, ran in, and I was like,
0:29:29.120,0:29:34.400
"I'm not going to make it." And I just like there
was a trash can right on the inside of the door,
0:29:34.400,0:29:39.280
and I just like grabbed it and hunched over
and just like vomited into it. Yeah, it was
0:29:39.280,0:29:44.240
pretty gross. No one noticed though. Everyone
just kept walking by. It's like a casual thing
0:29:44.240,0:29:48.160
to happen in Salt Lake City, Utah. Apparently,
it was really gross. But you would have thought
0:29:48.160,0:29:53.360
it happened every day. No one No one cared. And
then Devon came in and like was rubbing my back.
0:29:53.360,0:29:59.040
I was throwing up in the trash can. And she was
like, "Let's get some Gatorade and some soup and
0:29:59.040,0:30:04.800
some crackers." And some crackers. Yeah. I back it
up. I think you forgot why. My most iconic quote,
0:30:04.800,0:30:09.680
Mia's most iconic quote that to that story is,
"I walked in and started rubbing her back and
0:30:09.680,0:30:14.720
she turns around. She looks the saddest she's ever
looked and she said, "Will you look? Did I poop my
0:30:14.720,0:30:20.480
dress?" And she turns around and I look and she
did not poop her dress. I had this little dress
0:30:20.480,0:30:25.200
on and it was really cute dress. It was a good
road trip dress cuz it was had like no shape. So,
0:30:25.200,0:30:31.280
it just was like a big trash bag. But I had no
control over my body in that moment and I was
0:30:31.280,0:30:37.440
worried that some things had happened out of the
other end. So yeah, but luckily nothing did. Dev
0:30:37.440,0:30:43.440
like took really good care of me. So funny.
Yep. We did go to hotel. We did get like some
0:30:43.440,0:30:51.440
very homophobic comments from the guy working the
desk. E. Yeah. Something. We were again in Utah
0:30:51.440,0:30:57.120
and he just said some he was like trying to give
us separate rooms and kept then when we said the
0:30:57.120,0:31:01.760
same rooms we kept trying to give us separate beds
and we were like no one bed and he was like so
0:31:01.760,0:31:07.920
two twins and we were like one bed one bed and it
just he his face like the whole thing he couldn't
0:31:07.920,0:31:13.920
figure out that but it wasn't just oblivious
it was like actively homophobic. Yeah. So,
0:31:13.920,0:31:20.000
we finally got it. And that was one of my first
real encounters with like people treating us that
0:31:20.000,0:31:24.800
way. Yeah. But we got what we wanted in the end,
which is like hard cuz you were like not okay.
0:31:24.800,0:31:31.840
Yeah. Yeah. I was also like Yeah. Ironically,
two beds probably would have been better. But
0:31:31.840,0:31:38.080
I do remember being in the hotel room and feeling
I just like sat down on the shower floor and let
0:31:38.080,0:31:43.760
the like hot water on me and Devon came in and
brushed my hair. This is important, I think,
0:31:43.760,0:31:49.520
for two reasons. One, because I feel like this is
the first time that I realized that Devon really
0:31:49.520,0:31:56.240
like cared for me in that way. Like, this is a
person who I could count on to take care of me if
0:31:56.240,0:32:00.720
I needed it. So, that was the first. And like she
jumped right into like, we're going to get soup,
0:32:00.720,0:32:04.880
Gatorade. She was like, they were on rotation
all night. She was like, here's the hot soup.
0:32:04.880,0:32:09.520
Here's the cold Gatorade. Let me get more ice.
Here's the Gatorade with ice in it. Yeah. So,
0:32:09.520,0:32:16.480
that was great. But the the other reason I feel
like this was important or special is because
0:32:16.480,0:32:25.120
it was like not at all glamorous for sure. It
was like we were so gross, so sick, so sweaty,
0:32:25.120,0:32:31.280
but we still had such a nice time together. So
it was like the rosecolored glasses were off,
0:32:31.280,0:32:36.000
but we had the best time still, right? Like if
there was ever going to be a moment Yeah. where
0:32:36.000,0:32:40.800
it was like this is just not happening, it would
have been that moment for sure. But if anything,
0:32:40.800,0:32:46.080
it sounds like it made you guys even more I
think it made it real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
0:32:46.080,0:32:51.440
will say that there it didn't feel real until
like a after that trip. Like we also had like
0:32:51.440,0:32:56.800
a bunch of conversations on that trip. We had the
like we had the kids conversation. We had the dog
0:32:56.800,0:33:04.000
conversation. We love we said I love you. We had
a b I remember rapid fire in an IKEA asking her
0:33:04.000,0:33:08.800
like all of these questions cuz I'm like I have
a lot of big feelings for you, but I also want to
0:33:08.800,0:33:14.640
make sure our [ __ ] matches to like see if like
we're on the same pinch about at least right now
0:33:14.640,0:33:19.920
like about what you want your life to look like.
It would be like we'd be in IKEA which was just
0:33:19.920,0:33:24.240
a fun we just went cuz it was fun. I was going
to say like what were you guys we just went cuz
0:33:24.240,0:33:29.760
that's what you do in Utah. I don't know. But we
we went cuz it's fun to like go through IKEA and
0:33:29.760,0:33:33.520
walk around, but it would go like this. We'd be
looking at the glasses and Devon would be like,
0:33:33.520,0:33:36.480
"I like these glasses." And I'd be like, "Oh,
yeah, I like them, too." She's like, "Well, how
0:33:36.480,0:33:42.000
many glasses would you say that you might want to
get?" I was way more direct than that. I was like,
0:33:42.000,0:33:46.960
"Do you want kids or what?" It's like, "I like
these glasses, too." So, you want kids? Totally.
0:33:46.960,0:33:54.480
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Look at that tiny chair for
a child. Would you want one for a child? Yeah,
0:33:54.480,0:34:00.240
we did have a lot of big conversations on that
trip. Mhm. It was really It was really special and
0:34:00.240,0:34:07.040
also Yeah, very made it very real after that. I
had probably two months left after that on my trip
0:34:07.040,0:34:14.400
and then after the trip was over I was like, "Oh,
I can go back to San Diego where all my stuff is
0:34:14.400,0:34:20.480
and all of that or I can start a new chapter." And
would I consider moving to Portland? And my friend
0:34:20.480,0:34:27.440
had actually planted the idea like why wouldn't
you move right like you're you don't have anything
0:34:27.440,0:34:33.680
you had this like life-changing journey just to
return back to the you know so she had sort of
0:34:33.680,0:34:38.400
planted the seed for me and then I was thinking
about it and Dev and I had talked about it and
0:34:38.400,0:34:45.280
it was really important that I moved there for me
not just for her obviously she was a factor but I
0:34:45.280,0:34:50.400
didn't want to move somewhere I would be unhappy
like I wanted to move somewhere where I would feel
0:34:50.400,0:34:56.560
like I could also have my own life. Um, and I went
back to Portland at the end of the trip for two
0:34:56.560,0:35:04.000
weeks, stayed with Dev. Wow. To sort of see what
life when she wasn't on break was like. Yeah. So,
0:35:04.000,0:35:10.400
I went to school with her. I like hung out in
her home when she was at work. I like did my own
0:35:10.400,0:35:15.600
exploring and adventuring. I like found a yoga
studio, things like that. And then I realized,
0:35:15.600,0:35:20.320
oh, I could actually see myself living here. Yeah.
So, yeah. Then I moved a few months later and that
0:35:20.320,0:35:27.200
was in 2019. Okay. So, how long from when you
met or well maybe when you met for coffee the
0:35:27.200,0:35:32.400
first time to when you moved to Portland, how long
was that? Four months. Four months. Yeah. Oh, wow.
0:35:32.400,0:35:36.880
Wow. Okay. So, you guys had only like seen each
other in person just like a handful of times, but
0:35:36.880,0:35:43.440
throughout those four months you were Yeah. Out
of those four months, probably we spent a month
0:35:43.440,0:35:49.520
together in person. So, it would have been like
our first date and then she was she came back and
0:35:49.520,0:35:54.160
then the two weeks she was with me and then like
the week that I was or like the less a little less
0:35:54.160,0:36:02.160
than a week that I was in Utah. But I we spoke
and were on FaceTime every day for like hours a
0:36:02.160,0:36:06.880
day. Um yeah, I would call her when I was driving
to work. I would call her when I was coming home.
0:36:06.880,0:36:11.600
Like y'all were like right like the fact that you
guys were talking so much and facetiming every
0:36:11.600,0:36:16.240
night is impressive. It was nice because she was
really busy, so it wasn't like I wasn't getting
0:36:16.240,0:36:22.480
what I needed out of my trip, but it it sort of
gave me a little more direction after I got back.
0:36:22.480,0:36:27.280
And we didn't move in together. No. So, I moved to
Portland in the same neighborhood Devon lived in,
0:36:27.280,0:36:32.160
but we were we lived in That was intentional.
Yeah. I did not want to move down to San Diego.
0:36:32.160,0:36:37.760
And mostly it's because I had such a good rhythm
with what I was doing in Oregon and I was like,
0:36:37.760,0:36:42.560
I'm actually accomplishing all of my goals and
I can't sacrifice my goals. So, I didn't even
0:36:42.560,0:36:47.680
bring it up. My sister at the time lived in San
Diego, though. So, that was She did? Yeah. You?
0:36:47.680,0:36:57.040
Oh my god. You sister. I was like, "Ad move to San
Diego?" No, it was you. Um, uh, come here. Hello,
0:36:57.040,0:37:04.320
sweet girl. Um, no, it was really important for
me that Mia make this decision on her own. So,
0:37:04.320,0:37:08.080
I actually didn't bring it up. She brought it
up to me and she was like, "How would you feel
0:37:08.080,0:37:13.040
if I moved to Portland?" And I was like, you need
my response was, you need to do what is the right
0:37:13.040,0:37:18.160
right for you. Of course, I would want you to be
here, but I can't help you make that decision.
0:37:18.160,0:37:26.080
Right. Right. One, that puts so much pressure on
our relationship. Yeah. Mhm. Okay, Peanut. Oh my
0:37:26.080,0:37:31.760
god, you guys totally have boba. Oh, yeah. I'll
grab it. Yeah. When you have a wife, she will
0:37:31.760,0:37:40.720
door dash boba for you. And it's the best. It is
the best. Um, okay. Yes. So, I decided to Hi, hi,
0:37:40.720,0:37:46.000
Grandpa's favorite. I decided to move to Portland
because once I figured it would be good for me.
0:37:46.000,0:37:51.200
And actually, the turning point was I found a
femaleowned surf shop. It's not there anymore,
0:37:51.200,0:37:57.120
but at the time it was called Leeward Leeward
Surf Shop, I think. Um, and it was owned by a
0:37:57.120,0:38:02.480
really great woman named Lindsay. And that sort
of showed me not only is there a surf community,
0:38:02.480,0:38:07.200
but there's a female surf community. And I was
like, okay, I can do this. like coming from San
0:38:07.200,0:38:13.280
Diego. Yeah. Being able to feel like I could still
surf and that there was a community to do it with
0:38:13.280,0:38:17.920
was really important. So once I found that surf
shop, I was like, "All right, I think this is a
0:38:17.920,0:38:23.600
good spot." And I I was right. And there's a huge
surfing community in Portland, especially for
0:38:23.600,0:38:30.400
women. Yeah. So that's like so huge and integral
in your own journey and identity in Portland. Yep.
0:38:30.400,0:38:38.320
Exactly. That was So that was January of 2019. I
was a little depressed when I moved because I had
0:38:38.320,0:38:45.520
seen Portland in the summer in the fall and it
was and like the sun didn't go down till 10:00.
0:38:45.520,0:38:52.560
It was so warm and beautiful. And then I moved in
January and it was gray and dark and the days were
0:38:52.560,0:38:58.320
so short. Yeah. And it was like that for 6 months.
And then on top of that, all of the probably what
0:38:58.320,0:39:05.760
you would naturally expect coming down from a long
adventure. Oh yeah. moving to a place where you
0:39:05.760,0:39:10.880
only know one person, you don't have a community,
you don't have family because it takes time to
0:39:10.880,0:39:17.840
build community, too. 3 years is actually what I
found for me cuz we've lived I moved to San Diego,
0:39:17.840,0:39:23.040
Portland, we've lived in Hawaii, and now we're
back here. And for me, 3 years is like the sweet
0:39:23.040,0:39:29.760
spot of like, okay, I I'm oriented now to like
this place and who I am in the context of this
0:39:29.760,0:39:35.520
place. And I just feel comfortable and like I
have a community of people that I really like.
0:39:35.520,0:39:41.920
Yeah. So, yeah, I was having a really hard time.
I was in debt also from my trip and just like like
0:39:41.920,0:39:49.120
I said, super blank slate. So, I had to figure
everything out, but I eventually did. And then we
0:39:49.120,0:39:58.160
ended up moving in together like 9 months later.
We moved into a studio and then co hit like 3 or
0:39:58.160,0:40:04.000
4 months after that. Yeah. Then we found ourselves
in this tiny little studio which was great and it
0:40:04.000,0:40:08.640
was right above a Whole Foods. So, like really
we kind of had it made. The first three months
0:40:08.640,0:40:13.680
was really a crash course in how to live together
that we got to experience three months before the
0:40:13.680,0:40:18.320
rest of everyone else in COVID because I know
there was a lot of those co relationships where
0:40:18.320,0:40:23.760
people moved in together right as co happened
cuz that's the only way you could be with your
0:40:23.760,0:40:32.160
person was to essentially move in together or
quarantine together. Remember that. And um I was
0:40:32.160,0:40:37.920
really grateful that we had we had made the choice
to move in together. I was concerned about moving
0:40:37.920,0:40:44.720
in together mostly because like the last person I
had moved in with, I had like a lot of trauma from
0:40:44.720,0:40:50.000
that relationship and I was very concerned cuz
like at that point I was like, "Okay, I love Mia
0:40:50.000,0:40:55.520
and I can also go to my own house if I want to."
And Oh, yeah. And you guys moved into a studio.
0:40:55.520,0:41:02.000
There was like nowhere to go. Yeah. There was no
It was 450 ft. It was a great studio for the It
0:41:02.000,0:41:05.360
was a great studio, but it was very small. It was
small. And Mia was like, "Well, you've done this
0:41:05.360,0:41:10.480
before." And I'm like, "Not with you." I had never
lived with a partner before, so it was a big step
0:41:10.480,0:41:15.360
for me. Yeah. The only leg up I have is I like
I'm aware that we're going to get into fights.
0:41:15.360,0:41:20.720
Mhm. Actually, one of the things Devon said to me
around that time in our relationship, she said,
0:41:20.720,0:41:26.960
"It's not if you fight, but how." And Devon had
been in a long-term like seven-year relationship.
0:41:26.960,0:41:32.240
Six years. Seven years. Six year. Don't give her
an extra year. Six years. The longest I had been
0:41:32.240,0:41:37.440
in was like two years, but very on and off again.
Yeah. Yeah. So, I was just felt like Devon had
0:41:37.440,0:41:43.040
like a different level of experience with these
things. But she said, "It's not if you fight,
0:41:43.040,0:41:49.280
but how?" And we still think we still like talk
about that today because I used to think if you
0:41:49.280,0:41:55.680
got in a fight with your partner, something was
wrong. Yeah. Like like it was a reflection of the
0:41:55.680,0:42:01.440
relationship or like uhoh, you start fighting and
like something there's something deeper and it's
0:42:01.440,0:42:06.400
just not like the beginning of the end kind of.
But I have now learned and what Devon's taught
0:42:06.400,0:42:12.160
me is like it's actually very healthy and good
to fight. You just have to fight in a way that
0:42:12.160,0:42:20.480
is like still loving and supported. Like don't
be a total [ __ ] Don't like Yeah, you can't
0:42:20.480,0:42:27.040
cut someone down that you love in your fights.
That's not okay. But you will have different
0:42:27.040,0:42:33.280
opinions. You will need to vocalize things so you
don't build resentment. Right. Yeah. Um and we've
0:42:33.280,0:42:37.920
actually met couples who have been divorced but
looked back and said we didn't fight at all and
0:42:37.920,0:42:43.600
we think that was um a big problem for us cuz
we kept things inside. So we think fighting is
0:42:43.600,0:42:50.160
good and healthy but it's more about how you fight
and doing it in a way that like still is rooted in
0:42:50.160,0:42:55.360
love and understanding. Right. Right. That that's
a huge key difference I'm noticing is that like
0:42:55.360,0:43:00.480
there's a way to fight that's disrespectful and
that like cuts people down versus like there's
0:43:00.480,0:43:06.720
this problem and we're trying to figure out
how to navigate this problem together in like
0:43:06.720,0:43:13.440
the most respectful like affirming way possible.
Yes. I would way rather fight about something that
0:43:13.440,0:43:19.920
seems small and insignificant but just bring it
to a conversation. Maybe it's not even a fight,
0:43:19.920,0:43:28.560
but it lets go of things that we decide, no,
we're just not going to say anything, not
0:43:28.560,0:43:34.800
just generally resentful. I don't I don't want
that. Cuz it happens slowly. And then all of a
0:43:34.800,0:43:38.160
sudden, you wake up and you're like, "Oh my gosh,
I have all of these like feelings and I don't know
0:43:38.160,0:43:42.080
where they came from." Right. Yeah. Like feeling
like someone's been doing something always someone
0:43:42.080,0:43:46.640
always does something or for the past seven years
you've always been doing this. I don't ever want
0:43:46.640,0:43:51.120
to get to that point. So, we like to say make
mountains out of mole hills or mole hills out
0:43:51.120,0:43:56.000
of mole hills. Mole hills out of mole hills. Yeah.
They don't always have to be big fights, but like
0:43:56.000,0:44:01.760
like address them as they come up. Yeah. Versus
Exactly. allowing them to build. Exactly. Yeah.
0:44:01.760,0:44:08.400
Yeah. So, was that something that you guys learned
how to do is still learning? Still learning. Yeah.
0:44:08.400,0:44:13.600
I mean, me as life coach said that you're always
going to have to learn how to reccalibrate. Mhm.
0:44:13.600,0:44:19.920
Um, and so like like any big change in our life,
we have to recalibrate how we communicate with
0:44:19.920,0:44:24.800
each other. Like when I was in PA school, we had
a whole different set of like how we communicated
0:44:24.800,0:44:30.400
with one another and what our capacities were cuz
like there's like I feel like in relationships
0:44:30.400,0:44:36.000
there's this like idea that everything has
to be 50/50. That's just not realistic. like
0:44:36.000,0:44:40.320
there's just going to be times when it's going
to have to be 9010 and just talking about it and
0:44:40.320,0:44:45.920
recalibrating what your expectations are and
recalibrating what where you guys are at like
0:44:45.920,0:44:50.560
where we are at is has been really important to
us like when we lived in Portland what Mia needed
0:44:50.560,0:44:54.480
when she first moved there is very different than
what she needed when we were when we were moving
0:44:54.480,0:45:00.560
to Hawaii versus when we moved here. Yeah.
And when Devon was in PA school Yeah. the big
0:45:00.560,0:45:05.280
thing I did was I was like, "Okay, she's studying
constantly. I can't take any of her school stress,
0:45:05.280,0:45:09.760
but I can like make home life less stressful.
So, I just sort of stepped more naturally into
0:45:09.760,0:45:15.760
doing house chores and like grocery shopping and
making sure that home life was smooth. Yeah. But
0:45:15.760,0:45:22.160
then when Devon graduated from PA school and we
moved here, I was still doing that and I was like,
0:45:22.160,0:45:28.000
wait a minute. Yeah. This is not this was a
temporary thing. So we had to recalibrate and
0:45:28.000,0:45:35.120
like talk about what what is the like household
workload now that we are we have this shared space
0:45:35.120,0:45:40.560
but you don't you're not in this stressful period
anymore. Um so things like that. It's not 50/50.
0:45:40.560,0:45:46.320
I feel like it's just you know cuz life happens.
Life changes all the time. You guys adapted to
0:45:46.320,0:45:49.920
wherever you were in life at the time because
like I don't know you guys you know went from
0:45:49.920,0:46:00.080
Portland to Hawaii. Not only were the environments
so different, so so different. So different. Yeah.
0:46:00.080,0:46:04.960
But like your guys' life and what you were doing
at the time were really different. What was So
0:46:04.960,0:46:11.440
you were in Portland for how long? I was there for
five years. Mia and I were there for three. Okay.
0:46:11.440,0:46:18.640
Three. And then so you moved to We moved to Kona
from Hawaii. The big island of Hawaii. What year?
0:46:18.640,0:46:23.840
2021. Okay. Yeah. So what was that like? How was
that shift for you guys? It's tough. So, we moved
0:46:23.840,0:46:30.400
there 3 months before I started school in mostly
to like settle the house cuz we we bought a condo
0:46:30.400,0:46:37.520
there. Um I basically wanted to take a little
bit of a break from work and like the grind and
0:46:37.520,0:46:44.480
school and work at the same time and like go into
school refreshed and build um systems for myself
0:46:44.480,0:46:51.920
to like be less stressed and support my own mental
health during PA school. Yeah. Um because that's
0:46:51.920,0:46:55.760
basically what they told us. They were like, "This
is going to be the hardest educational moment in
0:46:55.760,0:47:02.640
your life and you're going to be financially
stressed. Tell your entire family that you you
0:47:02.640,0:47:07.200
will not be present at weddings, that you will not
be present in holidays. They will have to be okay
0:47:07.200,0:47:13.200
with that because this is such a huge commitment."
Um and I took that very seriously. So, I was doing
0:47:13.200,0:47:19.520
everything that I could to make sure that I
was setting myself up for success and also so
0:47:19.520,0:47:26.080
that I wasn't going to be a monster. One of the
biggest things that happens is divorce. Really?
0:47:26.080,0:47:33.040
Yeah. Because it's such a huge undertaking and
it's so it's such a fast program. So, I was we
0:47:33.040,0:47:39.680
had a bunch of conversations about like breakups
and divorce happen and it happened in my program.
0:47:39.680,0:47:46.480
Really? Several people got divorced. Oh my gosh.
And I like basically was like, Mia, you and I need
0:47:46.480,0:47:51.360
to figure it out because I love you and I want
to be with you forever and if I'm being a pill,
0:47:51.360,0:47:56.080
you need to tell me, but like we have to figure
out how this is going to work and how I want to
0:47:56.080,0:48:02.400
make sure that I'm prioritizing my family as well
as prioritiz like we already had cats. Like we're
0:48:02.400,0:48:08.720
you're stuck with me. Like we're not co-parenting,
okay? Like we're not doing that. But we definitely
0:48:08.720,0:48:13.840
had a lot of check-ins. That was something that we
really prioritized. Well, at that time, I was just
0:48:13.840,0:48:18.080
kind of like, "Okay, this is going to be the
hardest thing she's ever done." Like I said,
0:48:18.080,0:48:24.320
like, "What can I do to make it even just the
tiniest bit easier?" We didn't have any furniture,
0:48:24.320,0:48:29.520
so we like I feel like I figured out a lot of like
where to get furniture from, although you helped
0:48:29.520,0:48:38.560
with that for sure. Yeah. Um I just like kind of
took the lead on like any house stuff that we had
0:48:38.560,0:48:43.440
to do. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it was easier for me
physically. Moving to Hawaii is very challenging
0:48:43.440,0:48:50.320
like getting there and getting your stuff there
and getting set up, but I was in a way like I knew
0:48:50.320,0:48:56.800
it was going to be hard for Devon. I was lonely
cuz we were far away from everybody and like
0:48:56.800,0:49:02.160
Hawaii is at least the big island where we were
was like very small town vibes. Like people have
0:49:02.160,0:49:08.480
their community, their families and things so it
can be a little hard to make new friends. Mh. Um,
0:49:08.480,0:49:14.560
but I was also a surfer. I am a surfer. So,
I was also like so stoked, right? I was like,
0:49:14.560,0:49:18.480
I can't wait to You mean I get What do you mean
I get to live across the street from the ocean?
0:49:18.480,0:49:24.640
Like, I don't have to wear a five mm. Oh my god.
Yeah. Like a wet suit with a hood and gloves and
0:49:24.640,0:49:30.000
boots. I can go in my bathing suit. So, there was
a part of me that was extremely stoked just for
0:49:30.000,0:49:36.640
the lifestyle change. Right. I worked remotely,
so I was able to keep my job that I had had in
0:49:36.640,0:49:41.200
Portland moving to Hawaii, which was great. So, I
didn't have to find a new job. I feel like maybe
0:49:41.200,0:49:47.920
Hawaii was where we just sort of learned how to be
good under stress, like under continuous stress.
0:49:47.920,0:49:52.480
I feel like we learned how to be honest with each
other. Like, there'd be so many weekends where I'd
0:49:52.480,0:49:57.760
be like, "Let's go to the beach." And Devon would
be like, "I can't because if I'm on the beach,
0:49:57.760,0:50:02.720
all I'm going to think about is how much I should
be studying. So, we had I would do test questions
0:50:02.720,0:50:08.160
on the beach. Yeah. I would do flashcards on my
phone. Oh my god. Which is not as relaxing as it
0:50:08.160,0:50:12.640
might seem. Yeah. So, I I remember sometimes even
looking over at her and be like, "Are you spitting
0:50:12.640,0:50:16.880
out about like school?" And she's like, "Yeah."
I'm like, "We should go home." But so, there
0:50:16.880,0:50:23.120
was just a lot of like balance and compassion and
trying to be understanding for her situation. And
0:50:23.120,0:50:29.760
um I don't know, we came to really love it. Like
and then when Devon graduated, we actually did
0:50:29.760,0:50:35.760
want to stay, but she just couldn't find a job.
The medical community just wasn't hiring. Did you
0:50:35.760,0:50:42.320
ever consider moving to Aahu? Yeah, I applied
in Aahu. They I just, you know, I didn't get
0:50:42.320,0:50:47.680
call backs and so the people who were calling
me back were all in California. Also was like
0:50:47.680,0:50:55.600
very enticing for me to move home. I was going to
be closer to my parents, my sisters, and Mia was
0:50:55.600,0:51:00.720
also going to be close to all of her sisters and
a ton of her cousins. And so going from being in
0:51:00.720,0:51:05.680
Hawaii, where you're very like it's gorgeous and
beautiful, but it's also very isolating to going
0:51:05.680,0:51:12.320
to be in California where you have a ton of family
members, where everything is more accessible, was
0:51:12.320,0:51:19.040
kind of like the stars were aligning a little bit
in the in the move from Hawaii to to California.
0:51:19.600,0:51:23.520
It's so interesting. It was like San Diego,
Portland, Hawaii, and now you're like smack
0:51:23.520,0:51:29.360
dab in the middle. Exactly. Totally. Yeah. And
you guys have been here now for how long? Two
0:51:29.360,0:51:35.680
years in January. Really? Yeah. Oh my gosh, time
flies. Yeah. Okay. Did you I can't remember. Did
0:51:35.680,0:51:41.280
you guys get engaged while you were in Hawaii?
Yes. Okay, we can't skip that part. No, no,
0:51:41.280,0:51:48.240
no. I can share. Yes. So, we had been dating
probably five years, but for a while we had
0:51:48.240,0:51:53.040
said things like, "You're my person forever." We
just kind of knew and we had talked about it. Um,
0:51:53.040,0:51:59.120
and we both wanted to get married. I think just
because I don't actually know. Someone asked me
0:51:59.120,0:52:04.080
recently like, "Why did you want to get married?"
And I think it was just cuz like the idea of being
0:52:04.080,0:52:10.160
with your forever person just feels really nice.
I think we had both just wanted to get married,
0:52:10.160,0:52:14.480
but to do it for the right reasons, not
just because we feel like we should. So,
0:52:14.480,0:52:20.480
I wanted to propose to Dev, but I had also made
it clear that I wanted to be proposed, too. So,
0:52:20.480,0:52:26.640
it was kind of like I one of us has to go first,
and she made it clear that she wanted to go first.
0:52:26.640,0:52:30.720
She Yeah, you did. You told me Christmas. You
were like, I'm going to propose to you first,
0:52:30.720,0:52:36.480
just so you know. So, like, you you can go
second. I was like, all right, that's fine. Yeah,
0:52:36.480,0:52:41.760
I I had always thought I would get proposed to.
I wasn't ready to give up that like dream. So, I
0:52:41.760,0:52:47.600
had planned a really special day for me and Devon,
which started with us going to the beach near our
0:52:47.600,0:52:52.800
house. Early in the morning. Very early in the
morning, which for most people is not actually
0:52:52.800,0:52:59.200
that early. I think we left the house at 7:00 a.m.
Deon's face. She woke me up at 6:30 on a Saturday.
0:52:59.200,0:53:05.920
I used to start work at 5. Like, I'm like, this
is You're sleeping in. You're good. But for Devon,
0:53:05.920,0:53:10.800
I didn't start work at 5:00. No, it was way too
early for her. But I'm in my head I'm like I'm
0:53:10.800,0:53:14.960
proposing to her. I had told her we were going to
go to the beach early cuz I wanted to get there
0:53:14.960,0:53:19.200
before people were there. That was the idea. What
was the occasion though that you told that you
0:53:19.200,0:53:24.320
sold her? I think I just said like I want to get
up early and get to the beach and just have like
0:53:24.320,0:53:30.240
an uncrowded beach morning. Okay. Something like
that. Um and she had she had a surprise weekend
0:53:30.240,0:53:35.040
for me planned which was I thought was really
sweet. Oh, you didn't know about I told you it
0:53:35.040,0:53:40.720
was a surprise. I knew about the surprise weekend,
she wouldn't tell me what to pack. So, I was like,
0:53:40.720,0:53:44.400
we're living in Hawaii. It's like you wear the
same thing everywhere. What do you you wear what
0:53:44.400,0:53:49.680
you always wear? The irony is if she took me to
one place on the island, I would need pants and
0:53:49.680,0:53:54.480
I would have been cold. And I was like, girl, the
big island is I was not taking her to the top of
0:53:54.480,0:54:01.040
Monaca. I'm like, are we going to Mona cuz I need
a puffer. Yeah. No, she really like doesn't like
0:54:01.040,0:54:07.200
to not know what's going on. So my answers of
like you'll be fine. It's like on the calendar.
0:54:07.200,0:54:12.400
She's like but do I need a puffy? I'm like when in
the past 3 years have you need a puffy jacket in
0:54:12.400,0:54:17.680
Hawaii? So it just was really funny. She just
doesn't like to not know what's happening. I
0:54:17.680,0:54:23.840
don't. So she had a really hard time with that
which I didn't expect. Um and then I was like
0:54:23.840,0:54:28.960
early beach morning. Come on. We like leave the
house. It's maybe a 10-minute walk. We're walking
0:54:28.960,0:54:33.680
along. The birds are chirping. It's sunny, but
you know, in the morning, you can still sometimes
0:54:33.680,0:54:38.320
see the moon. So, I was like, "Oh, look. The moon
is still out. It's so pretty." And she literally
0:54:38.320,0:54:42.800
turns to me and is like, "I'm not there yet.
It's too early." Literally like, "Don't come at
0:54:42.800,0:54:48.560
me with your positivity. I don't want to hear it.
I'm still upset that I'm awake." So, I was like,
0:54:48.560,0:54:53.600
"Okay, that's where we are." Well, you're about
your mood better change really soon. We get to the
0:54:53.600,0:55:01.600
beach. Um, it's beautiful. No one is there. It's
not super like oppressively hot yet, right? Um,
0:55:01.600,0:55:07.280
and yeah, I think we just like waited into
the water into like our ankles and then I like
0:55:07.280,0:55:13.600
gave her a little ring and I had actually it's
this one. Mhm. And I had had it custom made the
0:55:13.600,0:55:19.280
diamond in the middle or it's not a diamond, it's
actually a moist moisaite. Is that what it is? Um,
0:55:19.280,0:55:25.280
it was her grandma's ring. I heard grandma's from
a ring that she had given Devon. It's my grandma's
0:55:25.280,0:55:29.520
engagement ring. My grandma's engagement ring. So,
you just had you just took the stone and like and
0:55:29.520,0:55:36.080
I had asked Devon if I could use that ring cuz she
and her grandma were very close and she said yes.
0:55:36.080,0:55:43.360
And then I had the three little emeralds um put
on. Beautiful. So, I had run the design by Dev.
0:55:43.360,0:55:49.440
So, none of this was like a huge surprise cuz I
didn't want to get a ring custom made. I had told
0:55:49.440,0:55:53.520
her I was going to do it first. I didn't want to
get a ring custom made that she wouldn't like. So,
0:55:53.520,0:55:57.840
I showed her the concept. I had asked to have
her grandma's ring. So, I think she knew,
0:55:57.840,0:56:03.280
you knew it was coming. So, we get to the beach.
I get down on one knee, do the whole thing. She
0:56:03.280,0:56:15.920
is shocked. Like shook. I said, "Oh, shit." Yeah.
And right up. Yeah. Oh, not my favorite response.
0:56:15.920,0:56:22.800
I was just shocked. Well, I mean, yeah, but it was
honest. And then our two friends who were living
0:56:22.800,0:56:27.280
on the island, I had told them I was doing it
after I proposed. They like came around the corner
0:56:27.280,0:56:32.160
and they had plumerias and they like threw them
for us and they had a Polaroid and they took some
0:56:32.160,0:56:37.680
pictures of us. But then, so the reason I had told
Devon to pack a bag was because I had gotten us
0:56:37.680,0:56:46.320
flights to Maui for the weekend and I had rented
us a camper van. Oh, that's So, this was before
0:56:46.320,0:56:54.560
this was two days before the Lahina fires. So, we
saw Maui right before we had actually never been
0:56:54.560,0:56:58.560
to Maui. So, we were like, "This will be a fun
adventure. We'll do the road to Hana. We'll sort
0:56:58.560,0:57:04.880
of explore around. We'll camp and then we'll go
home." Just sort of a long weekend. Um, and yeah,
0:57:04.880,0:57:10.960
and we had the most amazing weekend. And then when
we were leaving, it was really, really windy. Oh
0:57:10.960,0:57:16.000
my god. And the next windy and the next day the
Lahina fire. So happy that you guys weren't there.
0:57:16.000,0:57:22.480
Yeah, us too. But it was really it was like very
special to see in retrospect to like have seen
0:57:22.480,0:57:28.080
Lahina on like it's literally like last moments.
Literally like the last moments. Oh my gosh,
0:57:28.080,0:57:35.600
that's wild. So that was me proposing to Dev.
Mhm. I remember Dev, you reached out to Belle.
0:57:35.600,0:57:41.520
I don't know if Oh yes. Does Mia know this? No,
she doesn't. She doesn't. Tell me. Okay. So yeah,
0:57:41.520,0:57:45.920
Devon reached out to Belle because I guess the
original plan was that she was going to propose
0:57:45.920,0:57:52.160
to you at Yusede. Yeah. But I could I couldn't
figure out how to get the timing right and how to
0:57:52.160,0:57:59.040
like get it to be like not obvious. And I remember
there was going to be a family trip where we were
0:57:59.040,0:58:05.040
all going to be in Yoseite for like a day and it
was like coming up and I was like let I was like
0:58:05.040,0:58:10.480
I should do it then. And Mia's like I don't want
to go. I don't want to go to Yusede. And I'm like,
0:58:10.480,0:58:17.040
but we could go I wonder why I said that. You were
It was like a timing thing. You had like you were
0:58:17.040,0:58:22.240
like going somewhere or something and I was like,
"Okay, I was wondering. I was like cuz I was like
0:58:22.240,0:58:27.840
that would have been amazing." Amazing. Yeah. But
the way you did it was great. It was actually one
0:58:27.840,0:58:33.200
of my favorite days ever. So I'm I'm bummed about
that because I really I really wanted you guys
0:58:33.200,0:58:38.800
involved. Um and I really wanted Belle involved
because I love their photography. We ended up
0:58:38.800,0:58:45.120
going to, this is like a year and a half later.
Yeah. A year and a half week later to Caillou
0:58:45.120,0:58:49.920
um on like a little surf trip because I was like,
"Well, if it's not going to be Yoseite, I'm going
0:58:49.920,0:58:53.680
to take her surfing." And they were the worst
waves. And she was really upset about it, but
0:58:53.680,0:58:58.880
I was like, "The waves were so bad. I think I got
out and I was like, those are the worst waves I've
0:58:58.880,0:59:03.280
ever surfed in my whole life." And I was like,
"Who cares? We're in the water, right?" Right.
0:59:03.920,0:59:09.200
But I was having fun because Devon doesn't usually
surf with me and she got in and was like playing
0:59:09.200,0:59:14.640
around. The waves were so bad that it was just
kind of like we had fun just boogie boarding
0:59:14.640,0:59:18.640
basically on board. Yeah, we were hanging out in
the white water before we lived together. And then
0:59:18.640,0:59:24.800
when we lived together, I sent Mia letters like in
Manila envelopes and I mostly sent them while she
0:59:24.800,0:59:29.280
was on her road trip, but throughout the years
I've sent them still and it's just like letters
0:59:29.280,0:59:35.040
of like feelings and all the things and whatever.
I wrote down a letter for her to read when I was
0:59:35.040,0:59:41.920
proposing to her. Mostly because I get really
nervous and I lose my train of thought quickly.
0:59:41.920,0:59:46.240
Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I want to make sure
this is memorable cuz I'm going to black out.
0:59:46.240,0:59:50.400
And I was like, okay, the plan is I'm going to
like she's going to read it and like the bot
0:59:50.400,0:59:54.800
the last thing that I said is like turn around.
So I'm like trying to inch back and she's like,
0:59:54.800,0:59:58.800
"Where are you going?" and she's like trying to
snuggle into me while she's reading it cuz it's
0:59:58.800,1:00:06.560
like we're like on on the beach and it was very
spontaneous which is not like me and which is why
1:00:06.560,1:00:11.280
I think it was a surprise to Mia. I'm trying to
like inch back so that I'll be like down on one
1:00:11.280,1:00:16.880
knee. Yeah. And she's like where are you going?
And she didn't let me. And she said why does it
1:00:16.880,1:00:22.800
say turn around? You're right here. And and then
I like got down on one knee and I was I can see
1:00:22.800,1:00:27.280
this happening now. Like I could hear your voice.
I was like, "Where are you going? Why do you keep
1:00:27.280,1:00:33.040
walking backwards?" And I'm really glad that I
wrote it all down because I immediately started
1:00:33.040,1:00:38.800
crying and I like couldn't get it out. And I was
like, he's like, "You get it, right?" I was like,
1:00:38.800,1:00:44.960
"Totally. Uh, do you want to spend your life
with me?" Um, oh my god. Yeah. And then she said,
1:00:44.960,1:00:51.200
"Yes." And then out of the corner of my eye while
I'm down on one knee, I see a [ __ ] tree trimmer
1:00:51.200,1:00:58.960
with this with his like huge chainsaw and I'm
just like, "Please don't." And he waited until
1:00:58.960,1:01:06.560
I stood up and we hugged and then it was like,
"Yeah, imagine if he didn't wait." Like, I know,
1:01:06.560,1:01:11.360
right? It would be a funny story, but he was very
considerate. Yeah. But then he still like promptly
1:01:11.360,1:01:16.320
like then he was like, "Okay, your moment's over."
He's like, "I got [ __ ] to do." So, yeah. So, it
1:01:16.320,1:01:21.920
was Yeah. Mhm. That day was fun because we surfed.
We went tide pooling at one of my favorite places
1:01:21.920,1:01:29.760
on the coast cuz it's so like slow. Yeah. In that
area. Um slow surf town vibes. We were going to
1:01:29.760,1:01:34.880
drive home, but then we were kind of like, what
if we just got a hotel and didn't go home? So,
1:01:34.880,1:01:41.200
we made a reservation. I know. I know. We made a
reservation at this like really well-known seafood
1:01:41.200,1:01:50.080
place. We got a hotel room and we just like had
the most fun like decadent dinner and drank wine
1:01:50.080,1:01:56.960
and like really just enjoyed ourselves and we were
like newly engaged again. Uh we kept saying you
1:01:56.960,1:02:04.080
only get engaged twice. Oh, so cute. And we called
her dad to say we were engaged and he was like
1:02:04.080,1:02:10.320
wait so confused. He's like weren't you already
engaged? He said his exact words were this is very
1:02:10.320,1:02:19.520
confusing. It was so good. Oh my god, that is very
The parents, they keep us humble. Yes. He's like,
1:02:19.520,1:02:24.880
we're like, we're engaged. He's like, it has been
2 years. Why is this a thing? You've already been
1:02:24.880,1:02:29.280
engaged. Yeah. Gosh, both of them. He's like, oh,
I met this girl. You're being really intense right
1:02:29.280,1:02:36.400
now. Totally. I know. Both my parents just keeping
me keeping me keeping you Yeah. I love it. I love
1:02:36.400,1:02:43.280
it. Keeping you grounded. Mhm. But yeah, that
that was the double engagement. And then what,
1:02:43.280,1:02:48.560
like a year and a half later, we actually got
married. So, we had a nice long engagement, which
1:02:48.560,1:02:55.200
I actually loved because we knew the wedding was
going to happen, but we also weren't in any rush
1:02:55.200,1:03:01.680
for it to happen. We were not stressed planning
our wedding. We just were not until the last We
1:03:01.680,1:03:06.560
were not Yeah. Not until like 3 days before, but
we weren't on a timeline. We weren't like rushing
1:03:06.560,1:03:13.680
anything. It just was really nice and easy. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Especially since you the time between
1:03:13.680,1:03:18.000
both of your engagements was like over a year.
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was a year. It was
1:03:18.000,1:03:22.880
like a year and a half and mostly it was a year
and a half because I couldn't afford a ring.
1:03:22.880,1:03:29.120
I knew ex I knew exactly the ring she wanted cuz
she sent it to me. I sent her the link and I said,
1:03:29.120,1:03:34.400
"Buy this one." Yeah. It wasn't crazy expensive
for the record, but still like I think in general.
1:03:34.400,1:03:38.480
No, it wasn't. But I was like, I just don't have
any money. So, I like literally needed a job
1:03:38.480,1:03:44.960
before I was like, I can't afford your ring until
like I have a job to pay for it. And I was like,
1:03:44.960,1:03:49.360
that's fine. Mhm. Well, I mean, you paid for it.
A lot of people take out loans for rings. That's
1:03:49.360,1:03:54.400
so wild. Yeah. I don't think I could get any more
loans at that point to be honest. That must have
1:03:54.400,1:03:58.960
been 3 years then that you guys were engaged.
About Yeah. Yeah. You like technically got
1:03:58.960,1:04:09.120
married like a few months before your wedding,
right? On February 13th. Valentine's Day.
1:04:09.120,1:04:17.280
That was on purpose. No. No. It just all worked
out that way for some reason. Like you have to go
1:04:17.280,1:04:23.120
down to city hall during the week. A judge didn't
like marry us that day, right? It was we just got
1:04:23.120,1:04:28.560
our paperwork. We got our paperwork done. And in
order to get the paperwork done, you have to have
1:04:28.560,1:04:34.480
your officient and you have to have a witness. the
only day that Mia was available. And the reason
1:04:34.480,1:04:40.080
she was available was because I was getting lasic
surgery. And I asked her to take the morning off
1:04:40.080,1:04:44.960
so that so that I could get my lasic surgery cuz
I needed someone to drive me because they gave
1:04:44.960,1:04:51.280
me Xanax and and I was also going to be blind.
Yeah. A lot of reasons you shouldn't be driving.
1:04:51.280,1:04:57.600
This day was hilarious. I I had forgotten this.
Yeah. Devon was having eyeball surgery at noon,
1:04:57.600,1:05:04.160
so we squeezed in our marriage appointment in
the morning, but it actually worked out great.
1:05:04.160,1:05:10.080
We drove into the city. We looked really cute and
we just got our paperwork done. So, there were
1:05:10.080,1:05:16.000
people there actually having the ceremony getting
married. We just did the like formal paperwork.
1:05:16.000,1:05:24.880
My mom was the witness and and it was basically
us taking this piece of paper around to our friend
1:05:24.880,1:05:31.760
and to my mom and and and being married and
then putting it in the mail and hoping that
1:05:31.760,1:05:37.600
the US Postal Service didn't lose it. They did
not. They did not. The reason we wanted to do
1:05:37.600,1:05:44.240
that was because Trump had been elected and
sworn had been inaugurated in January and as
1:05:44.240,1:05:48.720
everyone knows like pretty much right out of the
gate was doing all of the things he said he was
1:05:48.720,1:05:56.160
going to do in Project 2025. One of which is to
get rid of gay marriage. Yeah. um amongst other
1:05:56.160,1:06:02.720
like really horrific things aimed like not just
at the LGBTQ community but largely at immigrants
1:06:02.720,1:06:10.160
and refugees and trans people specifically. But we
were both really aware that this was not like the
1:06:10.160,1:06:14.640
last presidency and that he was going to do all
the [ __ ] he said he was going to do. Yeah. And
1:06:14.640,1:06:21.200
we weren't going to be caught without paperwork
or in a position where we were not then for some
1:06:21.200,1:06:26.160
reason allowed to get married because we just
assumed that he wouldn't do it. Right. So yeah,
1:06:26.160,1:06:31.200
we were taking it pretty seriously. At first I was
a little resistant to it because I was like this
1:06:31.200,1:06:36.960
is supposed to be a happy thing. I don't want the
memory of like us getting our wedding paperwork to
1:06:36.960,1:06:43.120
be because some [ __ ] fascist [ __ ] made threats
against us. So, we need to protect ourselves,
1:06:43.120,1:06:50.880
but also that is the truth of what it was. And we
found ways, I think, for it to be not so rooted
1:06:50.880,1:06:57.520
in like fear, but to also say, okay, yes, that's a
truth and a reality, and we love each other and we
1:06:57.520,1:07:02.080
were going to do this anyway, so let's just do
it now, right? And I think it was helpful. So,
1:07:02.080,1:07:11.360
we were also encouraged by Uncle Johnny um who
got married in I think 2009 or 2010. Oh, wow. And
1:07:11.360,1:07:18.480
that's when that's when marriage was first being
legalized. And so, like it was first legalized in
1:07:18.480,1:07:25.360
2007 by Gavin Newsome in San Francisco. And that
was only San Francisco you could be married. And
1:07:25.360,1:07:32.880
then 2008 and nine was when Prop 8 happened or
excuse me, 2008 is when Prop November of 2008
1:07:32.880,1:07:40.160
was Prop 8. Um, and that's and that passed. And
so that made the legalization between a man and
1:07:40.160,1:07:46.400
a woman was the only marriage you could have. And
then that was slowly turned over by the states. It
1:07:46.400,1:07:52.400
was slowly turned over by California. And then,
you know, uh, Oberfell was came after that. I
1:07:52.400,1:07:57.280
can't remember the year. Uncle Johnny and Uncle
David got married in the midst of all of this and
1:07:57.280,1:08:02.000
they had a wedding and they did the paperwork when
they could do it because they had been together
1:08:02.000,1:08:08.640
for 25 years at that point. But his recommendation
was just do the paperwork. No one has to come with
1:08:08.640,1:08:13.280
you. You just have to have a witness. Just get
it done at the courthouse. Yeah. And then you
1:08:13.280,1:08:20.000
have that because they couldn't overturn Uncle
David and I's marriage, but they could say we
1:08:20.000,1:08:24.880
couldn't get married. It's very very hard to
overturn an existing marriage without calling
1:08:24.880,1:08:29.120
into question all of the other marriages in the
country. That was actually very comforting to
1:08:29.120,1:08:37.520
me because that was also a time in recent history
that marriage was like up and down, right? And we
1:08:37.520,1:08:45.440
did it at San Francisco City Hall, which is really
iconic in the history of gay rights and also for
1:08:45.440,1:08:52.560
Devon personally because when she was young, you
protested against Prop 8 at San Francisco City
1:08:52.560,1:08:58.480
Hall. So it was always a really iconic place
for you as a person as well. Yeah. So yeah,
1:08:58.480,1:09:03.360
it was really special. That is really special.
And I mean it's beautiful, too. Like there are
1:09:03.360,1:09:09.440
worse places to get. Wait, so do you guys Well,
what's your wedding anniversary? July 12th. July
1:09:09.440,1:09:15.760
12th. Yeah. Probably our actual wedding day. Okay.
Okay. So, when you are like quantifying how long
1:09:15.760,1:09:20.160
you've been married, it's going to be July 12th.
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Then like
1:09:20.160,1:09:25.280
the meaning of the day is still there. It didn't
take away the significance of that day for you.
1:09:25.280,1:09:30.880
Yeah. We'll probably have a chuckle on Valentine's
Day every year. I think it's funny because it's
1:09:30.880,1:09:36.000
Valentine's Day and that's like a common joke that
we're like roommates or sisters or whatever. Like
1:09:36.000,1:09:41.120
that's a common joke that people make about women
who are dating women, which I think is hilarious.
1:09:41.120,1:09:45.600
I don't think Mia thinks it's funny. If anyone
were to say, "Oh, like roommates, like gal pals,"
1:09:45.600,1:09:50.640
I'd be like, "No, no." Well, the amount of times
people have taken pictures of us and been like,
1:09:50.640,1:09:56.960
"Are you guys sisters?" is enough time. Really?
Yes. Yeah. or they call us friends like oh god
1:09:56.960,1:10:01.200
spa or something and they'll be like oh your
friend just checked in or something I'll be like
1:10:01.200,1:10:07.840
my partner or my wife now I'll be like my wife and
most of the time people don't mean anything by it
1:10:07.840,1:10:13.680
it's just still they're just not like aware that
there could be other relationships to not make
1:10:13.680,1:10:19.760
assumptions yes that's always funny to me and then
our our dating anniversary is September 11th so so
1:10:19.760,1:10:26.080
we were really dying for like a new anniversary
yeah so it's going to be July 12th so July Yeah.
1:10:26.080,1:10:33.120
Not Valentine's Day, not 911. Never forget. July
July 12th. July 12th is an amazing day. In the
1:10:33.120,1:10:38.400
middle of like smack dab in the middle of summer.
I love July 12th. Yeah. There's no delayed posts.
1:10:38.400,1:10:44.240
There's no unfortunate unfortunate. So funny.
I didn't even think about that. Like there was
1:10:44.240,1:10:52.080
no anniversary post coming out on Never. Can you
imagine? No. Anniversary posts also. I feel like
1:10:52.080,1:10:58.080
we will post stuff like that, but I don't know.
I'm really I'm always mindful that everyone puts
1:10:58.080,1:11:05.680
their very best, shiniest foot forward on social
media. So, actually, the only thing that I like
1:11:05.680,1:11:11.200
do consistently on social media is I post a real
on Devon's birthday every year of all of the funny
1:11:11.200,1:11:15.440
video clips I've taken of her over the year.
But on our anniversaries and things like that,
1:11:15.440,1:11:22.400
maybe a photo, but I try to make it like as
well Yeah. subtled and perhaps as wellrounded
1:11:22.400,1:11:27.760
as possible. Not like look at us in all these
glamorous moments, glamorous shots, all of this
1:11:27.760,1:11:32.800
stuff. It's like, no, we're real people. Yeah.
Doing life together. I do love those birthday
1:11:32.800,1:11:38.320
reals. The birthday reels are a huge hit. It's
my favorite present every year. It's my favorite.
1:11:38.320,1:11:43.920
It's literally just me taking short video clips of
Dev all year long condensed into like a minute and
1:11:43.920,1:11:50.320
a half of just awesome dev. It's me being a [ __ ]
doofus. Big Devon is just a huge goof. She's like
1:11:50.320,1:11:57.440
a goofy person. So smart, brilliant, doctorate,
all the things. But like, and I love that about
1:11:57.440,1:12:03.120
her because I can get very serious about things
and like very laser focused on accomplishing
1:12:03.120,1:12:08.720
things and she'll remind me to like just like like
chill out a little bit, laugh a little bit, like
1:12:08.720,1:12:14.400
be goofy. It doesn't have to all be so serious. I
usually end these episodes with just like a rapid
1:12:14.400,1:12:20.000
fire question. Okay, first one is what you might
have actually talked about it already, but what is
1:12:20.000,1:12:23.760
like a favorite memory that you guys have? And you
you're going to have different answers. I have a
1:12:23.760,1:12:30.720
good one. We didn't talk about this, but the first
year after I had moved to Portland, that first
1:12:30.720,1:12:37.520
full year, I flew back to Florida for Christmas to
be with my parents. And Devon wasn't going to come
1:12:37.520,1:12:41.920
with me. Told me she wasn't going to come. And I
was really sad cuz I wanted her to like come spend
1:12:41.920,1:12:46.800
the holidays with me and my parents. My brother
was going to be there. I just thought it was going
1:12:46.800,1:12:51.600
to be like a really special thing. My parents
live far away, so I don't see them often. Anyway,
1:12:51.600,1:12:56.400
I wanted them all to meet Devon. And I just was
like, she was like, "I'm so sorry. It's far. It's
1:12:56.400,1:13:03.600
expensive." I was like, "Okay, I get it." But she
showed up and surprised me. And on Christmas day,
1:13:03.600,1:13:06.800
my dad, I heard the doorbell ring and I
was upstairs. And my dad was like, "Oh,
1:13:06.800,1:13:17.040
I'll go get it." And she came upstairs and I was
floored. And then I immediately said, "I knew it.
1:13:17.040,1:13:21.680
I knew it." Because she had dropped some hints
that I don't remember exactly what they were.
1:13:21.680,1:13:25.840
There were some like little clues and I had been
like, "You are coming to Florida." And she's like,
1:13:25.840,1:13:33.840
"No, I'm not. No, no." And had convinced me that
I was like, "She gas. She totally felt awful by
1:13:33.840,1:13:39.440
the way." I was like, "I knew it." Were you like
originally not going to go? I was originally not
1:13:39.440,1:13:45.200
going to go cuz I didn't have the time off and
the flights were like a grand. Stop. Oh my god.
1:13:45.200,1:13:50.640
Really expensive. They were really expensive. And
then I found a flight on Christmas day for like
1:13:50.640,1:13:57.200
600 bucks. And so I texted her mom cuz we had
been texting and I was like, "Hey, do you think
1:13:57.200,1:14:01.840
Mia would like like would it be okay if I came to
your house for Christmas?" Like because I didn't
1:14:01.840,1:14:08.720
I had met her mom and I love I love Nora. She's
like the cutest woman ever. She's she's the best.
1:14:08.720,1:14:14.160
She's so great. She's so great. And I was like I
but I like didn't know her. So I was like, "Can
1:14:14.160,1:14:19.520
I stay in your home with you? can I invite myself
to your house? And she's like, absolutely. This is
1:14:19.520,1:14:25.120
such a great idea. I'd love this. And was fully on
board. And I'm like, you can't like like you can't
1:14:25.120,1:14:30.000
tell Mia though. I want it to be a surprise. She's
like, great idea. I love this. Text me your flight
1:14:30.000,1:14:36.400
information. We can pick you up. And I'm like, no,
I'm going to show up in an Uber or whatever. Is a
1:14:36.400,1:14:41.440
good cheerleader. Yeah. And by the way, that was
the wildest Uber ride. The drive from the airport
1:14:41.440,1:14:49.360
was like 25 minutes. And while we were on the
freeway, I watched a police chase and the the
1:14:49.360,1:14:57.680
car skirted around and crossed the grass median
and started driving the other way and the CHP just
1:14:57.680,1:15:03.840
turned his lights off and was done. Yeah, it was
like cops Florida. And I was like, that's Yeah,
1:15:03.840,1:15:09.440
you're like, where does this girl live? Cuz
I didn't know you that well. For the record,
1:15:09.440,1:15:16.000
did not grow up in Florida. Alert alert. did not
grow up in Florida. No, she's an east coaster.
1:15:16.000,1:15:21.040
She's an east coaster. But my parents did move
there, so we spend Christmas with them. Yeah. My
1:15:21.040,1:15:25.520
favorite memories with me are all like always like
little day-to-day things. Like I really I really
1:15:25.520,1:15:30.560
like going to like markets with her and like just
doawling around and like walking around. You love.
1:15:30.560,1:15:34.640
I really like day-to-day stuff with Mia. Like I
really like just like going on like walks with
1:15:34.640,1:15:40.240
her and chatting or going on like little drives
and chatting and and we do like to go on walks
1:15:40.240,1:15:44.160
together. We've been doing that a lot. Oh, one
of my favorite other memories is like we started
1:15:44.160,1:15:48.160
doing this thing on Saturdays where we get up at
like six o'clock in the morning. Wow. And watch
1:15:48.160,1:15:53.920
a movie. Can you even imagine how far she has
come? Okay. Well, I didn't I don't have to walk
1:15:53.920,1:15:59.280
anywhere. I walk from the bedroom to the couch
because we watch movies. Yeah. Saturday morning.
1:15:59.280,1:16:04.480
We'll watch a Saturday morning movie. So, what
how did you guys even come to start doing this?
1:16:04.480,1:16:10.080
Well, I love watching movies and so does Mia. And
I really get frustrated with her when she falls
1:16:10.080,1:16:16.160
asleep at 6 PM or 7 p.m. Do a lot of movies
a movie cuz she's like holding Gringanger and
1:16:16.160,1:16:20.400
then she's asleep and I'm like I have seen this
movie before and I'm showing it to you because
1:16:20.400,1:16:26.160
I love it. I don't need to see this movie by
myself again. Also, Deon puts on the Da Vinci
1:16:26.160,1:16:32.080
Code at 8:30 and I'm like, I don't know what you
expected from me. 8:30 is like, yes, that's late
1:16:32.080,1:16:37.680
bedtime. Exactly. 6:00 a.m. has turned out to be
an excellent time to watch a movie. It started
1:16:37.680,1:16:42.160
because we were finishing a movie from the night
before. Yeah. That we didn't get through. Oh,
1:16:42.160,1:16:47.840
cuz we were jetlagged from our honeymoon and
we were awake at 5. Just like I still don't
1:16:47.840,1:16:52.960
understand how you guys were watching a movie.
Oh, yeah. That's how So, so we were jetlagged. So,
1:16:52.960,1:16:57.520
I was just awake at 5:30 and we didn't have work
and I was like, "Well, I'm going to watch this
1:16:57.520,1:17:02.640
movie that we were watching last night and snuggle
up with the cats cuz I don't have plans today."
1:17:02.640,1:17:07.680
And then Mia's like, "We should do this every
Saturday." So we have started watching movies on
1:17:07.680,1:17:11.920
Saturday morning. I love that. And we had coffee.
We just were sitting here and we're like, "This is
1:17:11.920,1:17:16.640
actually really nice." So we've done it, I think,
two other times since then. So it's a new thing.
1:17:16.640,1:17:21.040
I love that. Because it's never going to get in
the way or it's never going to like conflict with
1:17:21.040,1:17:25.120
plans that you guys have. Like what plans are you
going to have at 6 a.m.? Being unconscious. Yeah.
1:17:25.120,1:17:30.960
This normally my plan. Wait, so how do you choose
the movie? Let me tell you, Devon chooses them
1:17:30.960,1:17:36.320
because I don't care. I don't care. I could watch
anything. I'll go to Netflix and just be like,
1:17:36.320,1:17:43.040
"Top 10 movies. I'll watch one of these." Devon
is Devon is so particular about her movies.
1:17:43.040,1:17:47.040
She's seen a lot of movies. Usually Devon's like,
"Pick out a movie." I'm like, "Okay, I pick one."
1:17:47.040,1:17:50.720
And she's like, "Not that one. Pick another one."
She's like, "Not that one." I'm like, "How about
1:17:50.720,1:17:56.640
this? How about you pick out a movie that you
want to watch?" She's like, "Great." Like, "Okay,
1:17:56.640,1:18:00.960
great. I'm glad that we I gave you the illusion
of choice. Illusion of choice is what it is. So
1:18:00.960,1:18:05.600
now Devon picks the movies and she'll maybe pick
like two options and I'll choose between them.
1:18:05.600,1:18:09.280
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's so sweet though. I
love this. Like movies are like your thing,
1:18:09.280,1:18:15.200
Devon. Um waking up early is maybe your thing, I
think. Probably. Yeah. Like you when else would
1:18:15.200,1:18:21.200
you That's our compromise cuz I will wake up
early. Yeah. That it is like a combined thing.
1:18:21.200,1:18:26.800
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's a good one, honey. Well, I
love that. Okay, last question, which I think is a
1:18:26.800,1:18:34.240
good one to end on anyways, but is there something
that you guys are looking forward to? Oh, well,
1:18:34.240,1:18:41.360
we're going to Iceland in March. Oh my gosh. So,
I'm kind of looking forward to that. Kind of.
1:18:41.360,1:18:47.040
Yeah, I'm only kind of Well, we haven't bought any
of the tickets yet, though. It doesn't feel real
1:18:47.040,1:18:53.200
yet. Doesn't feel real yet. It's an idea. Yeah,
cuz cuz it's supposed to be the like the most
1:18:53.200,1:18:59.600
impactful solar winter right now that in 2026. So,
we're going to go see The Northern Lights. I was
1:18:59.600,1:19:02.480
going to say I'm like, "You guys are going to see
the Northern Lights." I've never seen them. Have
1:19:02.480,1:19:09.360
you seen them? No. I would love to. It's a bucket
list thing, too. I saw them last year in Finland,
1:19:09.360,1:19:13.280
and they were really beautiful. Uh Mia,
unfortunately, couldn't go on that trip,
1:19:13.280,1:19:19.520
so I want her to see them. I think mine is a
little bit more mellow. Mhm. Um I am really
1:19:19.520,1:19:27.600
looking forward to a slower season of life because
we have had such a busy summer with well getting
1:19:27.600,1:19:33.600
married getting married the book launching
our honeymoon and we had a different trip for
1:19:33.600,1:19:38.560
a friend's wedding this summer. Like I also feel
like we're just now coming down from moving from
1:19:38.560,1:19:44.720
Hawaii, which I know sounds crazy, but it takes so
much time to physically get all your things here
1:19:44.720,1:19:53.760
and then to just again orient to where you are. So
I feel like I'm very ready for like shorter days,
1:19:53.760,1:20:00.640
slower everything. And Devon and I are um trying
to very intentionally build healthy habits. We're
1:20:00.640,1:20:08.880
calling them like HH our HH work, but we're trying
to like just very consistently eat healthy food.
1:20:08.880,1:20:15.040
Uh take good care of our bodies, get enough sleep
because we're also now at the age where Devon
1:20:15.040,1:20:20.320
called me almost 40 the other day and we almost
had a knockdown dragout fight about it. But no,
1:20:20.320,1:20:26.400
we are like, you know, we are more prone to like
having sore muscles or like throwing our back
1:20:26.400,1:20:31.200
out or our joints hurting or like not getting
enough sleep or being chronically dehydrated,
1:20:31.200,1:20:36.720
things like that that we're just like all of this
is within our control. So when you were like, "Oh,
1:20:36.720,1:20:41.680
you have a lot of produce." I'm like, "Yeah, we're
really trying to eat healthy. We're trying to get
1:20:41.680,1:20:47.360
enough sleep." I think I've been chronically
undersleeping my whole life. It's so easy,
1:20:47.360,1:20:52.560
too. Yeah. I'm now getting trying is to get
like 9 hours of sleep a night and I'm like,
1:20:52.560,1:20:57.760
"Holy [ __ ] I feel like a different person. I
didn't realize I needed this much sleep. I didn't
1:20:57.760,1:21:04.720
realize I needed to get 10,000 stepsish a day or
eat so much protein or just these things." So,
1:21:04.720,1:21:09.360
every day we're like very consistently trying
to do these things together. And it's nice to
1:21:09.360,1:21:14.640
have someone to do them with. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm
really looking for I I'm looking forward to just
1:21:14.640,1:21:21.520
the everyday stuff. Like, I like meal prepping. I
like going to bed early. I am Call me almost 40 if
1:21:21.520,1:21:26.880
you want, but I am into that right now. And it is
nice to have someone to do it with. Yeah. Yeah. Oh
1:21:26.880,1:21:31.200
my gosh. No, I totally feel that. Especially now
that you guys are married, like you're, you know,
1:21:31.200,1:21:36.400
you've already been building a life together,
right? But you've been everywhere, you know,
1:21:36.400,1:21:40.480
everywhere. You've made your way around the
Pacific Ocean and now, you know, you guys
1:21:40.480,1:21:45.920
are going to be here for the foreseeable future,
right? feels like a time of just like settling and
1:21:45.920,1:21:52.480
like actually building your life. Yeah. And Yeah,
for sure. I think in addition to like physically
1:21:52.480,1:21:58.160
moving, we've also traveled a lot which has been
so fun and we're going to do a lot more of that.
1:21:58.160,1:22:04.000
But I am feeling very called to just like rest for
a little while. Not like, oh, we got married and
1:22:04.000,1:22:08.960
now we're not going to travel anymore and now
your life is over. No, but more just like, oh,
1:22:08.960,1:22:15.600
we've done a lot. And it's like okay to just chill
for a little bit. I'm also not very good at that.
1:22:15.600,1:22:20.080
I'm like, what's the next project? What's the next
trip? What's the next thing? So, I'm also learning
1:22:20.080,1:22:27.200
to be like, oh, it's okay to just for a temporary
period. Just allow yourself to not be like doing
1:22:27.200,1:22:34.320
all of the things. So, I'm just really allowing
myself to be in this new place. And it is very
1:22:34.320,1:22:40.400
new. It feels weird and a little uncomfortable,
but I'm we I mean we will go on trips like Devon's
1:22:40.400,1:22:45.120
saying, but for at least the next six months, I'm
like I'm chilling. Yeah, I'm chilling. And you're
1:22:45.120,1:22:49.200
doing it harder. Yeah. Right. Like you were just
saying Devon that like this is uh the first time
1:22:49.200,1:22:54.720
in your life probably where you are getting to
rest. This is another one of those recalibrations
1:22:54.720,1:23:00.880
that I was talking about like we're recalibrating
how to live slower instead of such a high pace and
1:23:00.880,1:23:05.520
what that looks like for our relationship and what
that looks like individually. So yeah, because
1:23:05.520,1:23:13.360
when Devon was in school and working and when she
was in PA school, I was working a full-time job,
1:23:13.360,1:23:20.320
writing my book, becoming a life coach. And now
we find ourselves in a period again where we both
1:23:20.320,1:23:28.560
have space and we are we can fill it with more or
we can say what if we didn't and we just like got
1:23:28.560,1:23:33.040
really good with what we already have. So I think
we're going to lean into that for a little while
1:23:33.040,1:23:38.880
for sure. I love that. But we have the privilege
at this moment to have a little bit of space to
1:23:38.880,1:23:46.800
like choose. Yeah. And we're choosing to just rest
and heal and prioritize feeling healthy. Yeah.
1:23:46.800,1:23:54.000
And it's really nice. It is. I I continually ask
Dev, am I boring? Like I think I feel that way,
1:23:54.000,1:24:00.000
right? Cuz I'm like got to be in bed. It's 8:30.
But for a little while, I do think it's necessary
1:24:00.000,1:24:04.960
to just like take good care of yourself. Yeah.
And it's a It sounds like a good discomfort. It's
1:24:04.960,1:24:11.360
like a an opportunity for you to grow and that's
usually uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure
1:24:11.360,1:24:16.400
I'll get back into having way too many hobbies
and don't going on a lot of trips real soon,
1:24:16.400,1:24:20.800
but for the moment, I'm just letting rest be
enough. Well, thank you guys so much. Thank you
1:24:20.800,1:24:26.240
for having so much fun. Honestly, cool. Thanks
for having us. Thank you so much for listening.
1:24:26.240,1:24:32.720
If you enjoyed this episode, oh, actually, if
people who are listening want to follow along
1:24:32.720,1:24:37.360
with you guys and follow your relationship in
any way, like where can people find you? Well,
1:24:37.360,1:24:47.280
you can find Devon's annual birthday reels on my
Instagram account, which is @ mmmm btbolt. Um, or
1:24:47.280,1:24:54.480
if you want to follow along for my book updates,
you can follow at Mia K. Bolton on Instagram.
1:24:54.480,1:25:00.720
And where do they find you, Sassy Molassie? Oh,
you said it first. Uh, you can either find me on
1:25:00.720,1:25:10.640
Mia's birthday reel um on MMbolt on Instagram or
you can find me uh rarely posting on mine @ sassy
1:25:10.640,1:25:17.440
molassie. And you can follow Ordinary Love on
Ordinary Love podcast on Tik Tok, Instagram,
1:25:17.440,1:25:23.360
and YouTube. And we have new episodes every other
week. Go listen to them. Yeah, go listen to them.
1:25:23.360,1:25:27.760
I've heard they're good. They're fantastic.
Thanks for having us. Thank you so much.
1:25:27.760,1:25:28.260
[Music]